Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 19, 2025, 7:57 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Atheists, what are the most convincing theist arguments you heard of?
RE: Atheists, what are the most convincing theist arguments you heard of?
(March 15, 2017 at 11:00 am)Whateverist Wrote:
(March 15, 2017 at 10:02 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Have you ever experienced anything that changes that hasn't been caused to change by something else? Probably not.  So basically you're objecting to the premise despite the fact that your everyday experience confirms it. Your refutation requires you to deny the evidence of your own senses. Doing so comes at a very high cost and not many are willing to pay the price.




Possible conclusions to draw based on the premise I've bolded:

1)  Therefore the prior causes go back infinitely.  Implication, there could be no first mover as it too would require a cause;

2)  If the causes do not go back infinitely, then there would need to have been some first causes .. possibly even just one;

3)  It is impossible to know whether the number of first causes is zero, one or many.  It is also impossible to know whether first causes -if they exist at all- are natural processes or agents.  Therefore, based upon contemplation of possible first causes it is possible to deduce absolutely nothing regarding the nature of the universe(s) or its causes.

You might recall that when I had time to provide proper background on the 5 Ways, I began by distinguishing between accidental and essentially ordered series as it relates to your first suggestion. I suppose we could also have a discussion about actual infinities and infinitesimals. Aquinas deals with your third suggestion by demonstrating God's simplicity in Question 3. As you know we've discussed those ad nauseam. My purpose was not to debate the Five Ways; but rather, to illustrate the difference between evidence and proof. The evidence Aquinas presents is a common observation, a simple fact known from everyday experience. What the evidence means is another issue entirely. On such observations (evidence), he builds a case for the conclusion that God exists. What the 'no evidence' people are trying to do is avoid owning their objections.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Atheists, what are the most convincing theist arguments you heard of? - by Neo-Scholastic - March 15, 2017 at 1:19 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Hey-ya, I'm A Theist Lord Andreasson 31 3877 October 15, 2024 at 1:50 pm
Last Post: Silver
  Theists, provide your arguments for God. Disagreeable 41 5118 August 9, 2024 at 12:22 pm
Last Post: Ferrocyanide
  What is a theist other then the basic definition? Quill01 4 1191 August 1, 2022 at 11:16 am
Last Post: onlinebiker
  Theist with Questions RBP3280 57 5795 April 1, 2022 at 6:14 am
Last Post: Jehanne
  10 Syllogistic arguments for Gods existence Otangelo 84 15872 January 14, 2020 at 5:59 pm
Last Post: Abaddon_ire
  Dating / Married To Theist wolf39us 23 4494 April 8, 2019 at 12:11 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  You're a theist against immigration? Silver 54 12642 July 9, 2018 at 12:09 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  A serious question for the theist. Silver 18 4067 May 9, 2018 at 3:11 pm
Last Post: Neo-Scholastic
  Stupid theist tricks........ Brian37 6 2782 April 29, 2018 at 12:06 pm
Last Post: Brian37
  Baha'i Faith, have you heard of it? Silver 22 4474 October 23, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Last Post: Harry Nevis



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)