morality is subjective and people don't have free will

[Catholic_Lady]

Says who though?

We don't have to prove what words are the right words to use. Can we prove that we ought to use the word "health" to describe someone who isn't sick? No, the word is just a label. But health is still a matter of objective facts. And when it comes to immorality... whether we call it "suffering" or "bad" or not... it's still an objective fact that suffering is suffering. And you can have more and less suffering. I don't see the difference between saying that and saying you can have more or less badness.

Suffering is suffering, yes. But you were claiming that suffering = wrongness. I was wondering on what grounds you make this claim.

What if a child is suffering after the pain of getting a vaccine, why isn't that wrong?

Because the payoff is worth it. If they don't get the vaccine and they get ill they'll suffer much, much more.

So then suffering doesn't necessarily = wrongness, as you said lol. Suffering can be for the better, and it depends on whether the person thinks some suffering to potentially improve or prevent something else is worth it.

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The difference between my opinion and God's "opinion" is that He's the one who created the world we live in and all of its Laws and how it works. We call it Natural Law. It's like me creating my own board game and designing how the game works and the rules that go with it. The rules of the game are integral to the way the entire game was designed to work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law

1. Assuming for the moment the truth of what you're saying,inn what way does that make it *objective* (that is, existing independently of opinion, reason, or mind)?  You're describing something else I think.

2. Are those God's rules moral because God commands it, or does god command it because it's moral?  This isn't a question that gets sidestepped so easily by asserting that a hypothetical creator gets to make the rules - that may be true or not, but it doesn't describe objectivity.

1. It makes it objective because Natural Law is integral to how the universe was made and how the universe works. Just as rules to a game a person creates are integral to how the game was framed and how it is set up to work. For this reason, Natural Law is the objective reality of the world around us. 

2. They are moral because they are in accordance with God's nature. And God created the world in accordance with His own nature. So the two things (morality and God) cannot be separated.