RE: morality is subjective and people don't have free will
May 16, 2017 at 11:10 am
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2017 at 11:15 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 16, 2017 at 10:42 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So as I said in another post, suffering can often times be for the best. That doesn't really jive with saying that suffering is inherently immoral in and of itself, and that suffering literally = wrongness. And as such, doesn't jive with basing morality entirely on suffering.
Well, of course, because I believe suffering is wrong in and of itself I also believe that if it's a choice between suffering a little and suffering a lot... suffering a little is objectively better.
Quote:Also, if I cheat on my husband and he never finds out, it won't hurt him. He won't suffer from it or be less happy for it.
Yes, but you can't know that he wouldn't find out.... and you'd also worry about him finding out even if he never does... so even if it doesn't cause him distress, it would cause you distress.
The harm it does both to the partner and yourself, is, IMO, the whole reason it's deemed immoral in the first place.
Quote: If I steal $10 from a rich person so that I can buy a pack of cigarettes, and they never find out, it won't effect them in the least bit. No suffering will come to that rich person and they won't be less happy.
Suffering will come to yourself though.... because cigarettes are bad for you.
And I do think that, despite they won't suffer, they'd be better off with a little more money. It could be sent to charity rather than spent on cigarettes.
Quote:I think there are many holes and flaws in the notion that immorality is entirely based on suffering.
I don't think so. I think harm naturally produces an obligation to help. The very essence of morality is reducing as much suffering as realistically possible in the long run and as causing as little harm as possible in the long run.
(May 16, 2017 at 11:03 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Of course there are all sorts of things that can influence us and our decision making. I don't think anyone would say otherwise. But at the end of the day (excluding special circumstances like mental illness) we are still responsible for our behavior. We still have the ability to make choices.
Socially and legally people hold us that way. And with good reason.... but the reality of the matter is... prior causes don't just influence our decision making. They cause it. It's like Galen Strawson said:
Wikipedia Wrote:1. You do what you do, in any given situation, because of the way you are.
2. To be ultimately responsible for what you do, you have to be ultimately responsible for the way you are — at least in certain crucial mental respects.
3. But you cannot be ultimately responsible for the way you are in any respect at all.
4. So you cannot be ultimately responsible for what you do.