morality is subjective and people don't have free will

[Aroura]

I was Catholic, I know the doctrine.

That being said it isn't the Catholic thinking I find repulsive, but in particular the evangelical one.  That babies cry because they are full of sin, that a 2 year old saying "no" to his mom or dad is a sin (even if not held responsible), thinking that a 2 year old is willfully sinning is both ludicrous and sick, imvho.

So my comment was at Steve, not at you CL.

Where in the world did you get babies cry because of sin?!? Then you take the most innocuous scenario possible (saying "no") and claim that it is ludicrous. How about when the child hits another unprovoked? Does not share? Throws temper tantrums when they don't get what they want? Breaks/takes something intentionally and then runs (after being told 'no')? Are you seriously claiming a child is a clean/innocent slate and we can't view these actions as selfish, insolent, destructive, and/or hurtful until...when? What is the point when we can call a spade a spade? To me, these are objectively wrong motives no matter what the age of the child is or how well they understand their motives. Again, I don't think they are morally responsible, so it seems your objection comes from me calling a spade a spade rather than some conclusion I am drawing from it. 

BTW, I have had 5 two-year-olds myself as well as being the oldest of 7 siblings and having 13 nieces/nephews over 2. I am well acquainted with the age.

Yes, children hitting mom and refusing to share is still children learning how to be.  Learning where the boundries are.  It isn't sin, it's normal developmental steps.  Everyone goes through those phases, that's how we learn right from wrong.  That's why children need to be taught where the boundries are, and have that reinforced.  Not taught they are sinful just for testing to see where that boundry is.

You think their motives are objectively wrong, at 2, to misbehave at all.  You might know some children, but you are utterly ignorant about their actual psychology. It isn't calling a spade a spade, it's just flat out 100% wrong.

Of course I'm not claiming they are a clean innocent slate.  Children aren't blank slates at all.  Responsibility is beside the point in this discussion, the point is you see toddlers as willful "sinners", when that goes against everything we know about child psychology.