RE: The Trinity and Mary
May 18, 2017 at 4:24 am
(This post was last modified: May 18, 2017 at 5:06 am by Fake Messiah.)
(May 17, 2017 at 1:09 pm)Lek Wrote: So your saying that because his morals and sentiments were reflected by earlier cultures, that proves that the gospels were made up?
Well that proves Jesus was nothing new in town, either by his moral teaching or "divinity" elements. What you think it's just coincidence that he was born of a woman and son of main god like made up gods have been doing for few thousand years before? That he resurrected like myriad of gods before him? I guess you go by "explanation" of old christian apologists that all that was invented by devil to prove how Jesus was just a myth. Is it also coincidence he was saying same stuff that people have been saying for centuries already?
And it is well documented that Jesus myth was created during Council of Nicaea by taking myths about him and deciding which suit them well and which do not. I mean take the one that didn't make it like Jesus being as strong as a giant to run his course all over the world was obviously proclaimed invented and even you consider it fake and made up, so what makes other myths not made up? Just because they at Council of Nicaea said it was not?
(May 17, 2017 at 1:09 pm)Lek Wrote: You referenced cultures that had multiple gods, more than three, but grouped some into triads and decided that the writers of the new testament copied them to form the trinity. What about all the other gods?
Well that's the whole topic. Christianity also has many gods. Vorlorn mentions how come Virgin Mary didn't make it into holly Three. The three major so called monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, still believe in a host of supernatural beings, particularly angels and the devils and even saints. For instance doesn't Satan, a fallen angel, seem like a god ruling over hell? He's not so different from the ancient Greek god Hades, who is supposed to be running the underworld. The idea that only one deity among many should be worshiped is known as henotheism rather than monotheism.
Look at it this way, if one knew nothing about Christianity and heard descriptions of flying angels and demons with magical powers, it would probably seem reasonable to conclude that this is a religion with many gods who have a variety of roles and who possess different abilities, much like many other religions. Those other religions did have many gods but their belief was more refined, just like Christians today. They had the big three who were main gods and others who kind of participated.
Looking historically they are beings created by the one all powerful Creator just as the Egyptian deities were the product of the one all powerful Egyptian Creator. The idea of an all powerful Creator who brought forth other supernatural beings has its roots in ancient Egypt. There it was a central belief in most religious cults that a single Creator was responsible for all of existence, including the appearance of other deities. It is the Egyptian views that initially influenced Hebrew understanding of the first times, and many of Egyptian Creation myths are replicated in biblical history.
(May 17, 2017 at 1:09 pm)Lek Wrote: As for him speaking of his divinity, I think this is pretty explicit:
John 10:30-38English Standard Version (ESV)
30 "I and the Father are one.”
So you're trying to say that because Jesus was re-hashing some old stuff from the Bible is because he was JHWH himself. So what if he proclaimed himself as god himself or messiah? Why would you or I believe him or it? For starters he didn't meet specific criteria in the OT like that he must bring world peace; he must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem; must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d; and so on.
Was it because of his moral teachings that were already well known? So what's so special about him?
And also how sincere are you in this belief? Do you really believe that Jesus flood the world? God the Father did not suffer on the cross. How could he if he was sacrificing his only son? Did not Jesus himself supposedly yell to his father as he was on the cross? Is he not suppose to sit on his right side? So how can they be the same person?
(May 17, 2017 at 1:09 pm)Lek Wrote: There are countless similarities in our modern culture to ancient civilizations. Does this mean that we copied them or that we just share some common ideas?
DUH! We are continuation of old civilizations. Trough time people succeed earlier people's ideas, customs, religions and then live by some, change some.
What do you think Founding Fathers invented democracy or was it invented by old Greeks? Same thing with gods.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
