morality is subjective and people don't have free will

[Catholic_Lady]

Confirmation doesn't happen at 7. You're probably thinking of first communion, which is what I had when I was 8. We had confirmation at 14. 

The RCC has established the age of reason as being 7. That means by then a person is old enough to understand right from wrong and can begin to have some level of accountability and can begin to feel and express remorse. 

As I said, I don't remember exactly how old I was when I first started hearing the word "sin", but I'm assuming first grade so age 6-7 like I said earlier. From what I remember, Kindergarten was mostly fun and games. By the time I did have first communion (age 8) I knew that sin = bad actions. And I knew that bad actions were contrary to God's will. But I certainly didn't understand all the nuances of sin such as venial sin, serious sin, mortal sin, original sin, and culpability until much later. 

What I'm trying to get at here is that I certainly wasn't instilled with the fear of Hell or told I was unclean or was sat down and given these heavy talks about original sin, etc, when I was a little kid. Learning about all these things was a process. It started with learning the basic meaning of the word sin, and went from there. 

It just seems like some of you are trying to push this idea that Christian parents generally scare and traumatize their toddlers and very young children with deep talks about sinfulness and Hell, which simply isn't the case.

Honestly, I wasn't actually traumatized by it (much) either.

However,and I'm completely serious here, when you do have kids, which I know you want, look out for the Good News Club and similar organizations.  They will tell you that they are just a Christian afterschool program, and they welcome kids of all backgrounds, but their actual goal is to convert children.

That one in particular is in schools all across the US.  They still view Catholics and Protestants and Baptists as a bunch of fallen away sinners, and will try to turn your kid evangelical.  They use the tools of shame, fear (and sin in those contests) to take your child away from your religion.  It's no joke.  Thousands and thousands of small children (they prefer 5 to 7 year olds) are exposed to really horrible ideas, such as that they are currently destined for hell due to original sin.  You can think that all Christians are as easy going as you, but that simply isn't the case.   These are real things, real issues.  It didn't happen to me, it didn't happen to you, doesn't mean it isn't a problem.





And their 6 colors.  Lovely stuff, really.


This is a HUGE movement right now.  Again, I'm glad that many Christians don't teach their kids this kind of thing.  But many DO.

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P.S. There is no need for you to get defensive, CL.  You said you don't even believe this kind of doctrine, were not taught it, and do not plan to teach it to your kids.  Great, wonderful, fabulous.  As I stated at the very outset of this conversation, it ISN'T CATHOLIC DOCTRINE in particular I am talking about.  It's evangelical.  I said it immediately, and it is still what I'm talking about.

You have no reason to defend every Christian.  Some of them teach some really fucked up shit, which is no reflection on you personally, or on your beliefs in particular.  You are taking this idea that we were discussing, that did not even really apply to you, as if we were criticising you.

I'm not out to say all Christian parents, or even most, do this.  No one did.  Everyone who agreed with me even specified the exact doctrine and organizations we were disgusted with. Original sin in general, yes kind of.  But specifically this way of teaching it.

So tell me, do you think this is wrong to teach kids?  The stuff linked up above?  If so, then yeah, we are in agreement, and no one is picking on your beliefs!

Fair enough, I apologize for getting defenssive. As i said to steve earlier, I don't doubt that there are christian parents out there who do this, I just think it's far from the mainstream. Sorry for assuming you were implying otherwise.

I had never heard of that club before, but thanks for the heads up. And yeah, I definitely agree that it's not healthy at all to be saying those things to children. I'd argue even for any adult it's not healthy. Too much focus on sin and fear of hell can lead to scrupulosity and take away from the greatest message - which is that God loves us and that our journey to seeking goodness and truth is one that is constant, with many expected set backs and stumbles. And that's ok.