(July 18, 2011 at 9:09 pm)Trog31 Wrote:(July 18, 2011 at 12:34 pm)Godschild Wrote:
Hmmm I don't think I communicated very clearly.
Try this:
The terms "Simple" and "Complex" are subjective.
They make a statement about the OBSERVER and not the OBJECT
For example: An internal combustion engine is viewed by
two people. The first one sees it as extremely complex and unknowable
The second one sees it as a simple device easily broken down and rebuilt.
The object itself has not changed, doesn't require anything magical or a divine will
You made my point exactly when you said "God is far beyond our understanding,
if He wasn't then He would not be God" God is beyond YOUR understanding
and that's why you attribute what you do to him, but how you see YOUR god
is unique to YOUR perception of him, just like the engine.
Something isn't complex because god made it that way, it's complex because
you SEE it that way. God doesn't need to be involved at all.
If you see the universe as complex, that's your PERCEPTION
it has nothing to do with the actual thing and it certainly doesn't infer a need for an
omniscient consciousness.
Because YOU see something as complex doesn't confer any meaning whatsoever to
what you are looking at.
If I look at the universe and say "It's so simple" what need is there for God?
If you look at the universe and say "it's so simple," then one need for God would be to show you how crazy you are. I do see the universe as complex and I bet I'm not the only one, yes it has everything to do with the actual thing (universe), the universe is extremely complex even if you do not believe it is, your perception of the universe makes it no less complex. God is complex because He is omniscient,omnipresent and omnipotent and yet it is through these that we are able to see and understand God and His plan, that is of coarse what our finite minds can perceive. You are actually proof that God is complex, you deny what you can not understand, you reject the divine simplicity of because you think it is to simple. God has not tried to hide Himself from you, me or anyone yet so many do not see Him, maybe it's because they are looking for something more than simplicity, I don't know, that is just the way it looks to me.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.