(July 19, 2011 at 3:56 am)padraic Wrote:Quote:I do see the universe as complex and I bet I'm not the only one
So what? Argumentum ad populum (argument by consensus) a common logical fallacy much loved by apologists.
Perhaps I've misunderstood. .IE Trog argues there is no such thing as objective complexity, that the notion is relative. You argue the the contra position (?)
I agree with Trog in principle. However, I think that a god with the infinite attributes of the Abrahamic god cannot even be discussed in any meaningful way. That is not to say that ANY god may not be described or discussed. Eg the ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans had no trouble. After all,there is as much credible evidence (ie none) for the existence of say Osiris, Zeus and Deus Sol Invictus as there is for YHWH.
True enough. If you ascribe infinite "anything" to a being then no finite knowledge about that quality
is meaningful (as I said earlier)
That the universe is not infinite and follows specific rules that can be understood by finite beings, flies in the face
that a perfect and infinite being created it. My point was simply to say that using a personal perception as
a proof or disproof of god has no value. The only thing that can be ascribed to personal perception is belief.
Truth is proveable but not always believable.
other gods besides Yahweh were never ascibed "infinite" qualities and so they didn't have the problem of requiring
conformity to perfection. The problem with a perfect being is that all qualities are equally valid - even the contradictory ones.
Perfectly Complex and Perfectly Simple. Perfectly Good and Perfectly Evil, Perfectly Just and Perfectly Cruel etc etc.
To be less than perfect in any quality violates the definition of "perfect being".
The abrahamatic followers thought they were resolving the "my gods bigger than your god" problem by making theirs
perfect, but that puts it into a nasty hornet's nest of absurd qualities.