A Question From Atheists

[The Grand Nudger]

I think calmness of mind is a subjective matter. There is no point arguing about it. I merely suggested reading philosophical formulation of pantheism can calm the mind based on my personal experience. I don't think my personal opinion is interesting for you. But Einstein has said:

I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism

 It is by no means an evidence, proof or anything like that. I thought the scientific status of this person might suggest you to consider the possibility of pantheism being more than absolute "nonsense".

Why would it...that would be an irrational inference.  I know better.  Many smart people have found many dumb things fascinating.  OFC, you're probably inserting a little bit of your own beliefs into einsteins fascination..so there's that.  I;m fascinated too, as are many others....by what seems to be such an effectively subversive rhetorical tactic that it slips right under god believers' noses.  

 
Imaginations do not exist, they of course exist if you see them as activities of neurons in the brain. But when you say "I" you are not to those neurons activities, are you? In fact even if you are referring to those pulses within your brain, there is no actual referent, because those pulses constantly change there is no "object" within the real world that can be referred to as I.

At what point did it seem like a good idea to you, to say that something which clearly exists and for which no human being on earth is short of evidence...doesn;t exist?  At what point did it seem like a good idea to you to then..in the next breath, explain exactly how the thing you had just claimed didn;t exist, exists..of course?

........................?

You're preaching to the choir, as regards self or I...but you're only saying that these thongs don't exist as we perceive them..that's all you -can- be saying with such comments.  

There are many people who claim they understand this on a subjective level and experience the voidness of their "I". They experience "I" as having no actual referent. It is said that this understanding can be a natural consequence of meditation (Yogic meditation or whatever) you do not need to have any sort of talent or ability to experience it.

That's nice, other people™..who aren't here, and can't demonstrate this to be true even if they were?  Yoga....yoga.......jesus christ......

I'm telling you, in no uncertain terms..that the concepts that you are butchering up above are not only familiar to me, I agree with them - but the universe still didn't shine, like you said it would, when I came to understand what I already understand.
 

I think there is nothing to prove about pantheism. I think if your imaginary "I" is removed, which means there must be some significant shifts in the patterns and behaviors of neurons within your brain, it makes absolute sense.

I spoke the magic words and the devil didn;t appear.

There is no way to prove what I'm saying as we are talking about a subjective experience. Someone must experience it to verify if it's true or not, I don't think philosophical investigation of it can yield any result.

OFC there would be.  You just offered a way.  You claimed that if I got x, that y would happen.  Well...I get x, strangely y isn't happening.  

If you are interested you can practice a technique called "Self-Enquiry" I think it can lead you to experience some degrees of "lack of I" within a relatively short time.

..................sigh.................

I never claimed my self is silenced or any other claims about my personal experiences. I'm sorry if my bad use of language made you think that. I think it's absolutely absurd to make such claims as my inner conception of self is absolutely irrelevant to you or anyone on this forum and there is no way to verify what I say about it. But what I can do is to refer to many well-known individuals who claim this is possible to achieve this experience through different techniques and practices. This can be some evidence that this is possible, if someone is very interested to verify it (s)he can give it a try.

So, you haven't experienced it, but you think that's what happens....and can't explain either why you think that, or why it doesn't happen?  

What can you do, what can you explain?  

 
You are being right, the way I put it went somewhat "poetic" which was not consistent with my tone. I apologize for that. I'm just simply suggesting (not proving) that pantheism can be "experienced" that's all. You can do some research and read about the testimony of many others who have experienced that. My personal testimony, as a random person on the Internet on that doesn't mean anything.

Plenty of things can be experienced.  Not every experience is an accurate description of reality.  Your personal testimony has been riddled with sloppy thought and miscommunications, if not downright lies. In all of it, there's a sense of pointlessness, with all this talk of no self or removing the self or meditating the self away. None of that, absilutely none of that...would establish that the universe were a god regardless of it being true. It's just a bunch of unrelated concepts mashed together in the new age fashion and misrepresented by a person who clearly, very clearly, has absolutely no idea what they're talking about at any point.