It seems that the thread has become about quibbling over definitions, rather than the concepts behind them. I don't disagree with defining ones terms, it is useful in discussion to be addressing correctly the opposition. We have different understandings of the way in which words are used, as well as the context in which they are used, can take on a different sense (sometimes not found in a dictionary). For instance, one might get the wrong idea, if they simply look up and pick a definition for the word's natural and science, and apply it to the phrase natural science (or died of natural causes).
Now I looked up the word "natural" in the Websters dictionary. There are a lot of definitions there (much more so than the one used above). And as is the nature of words, some uses may be quite divergent although understandably related, and some senses (in context of the surrounding words or the phrase used) may not even be in the dictionary or directly apply. It appears to me, where the conflict arises (and the time to quibble) is if reasoning from one sense is being wrongly applied to another sense. This is a fallacy (equivocation) and even then it can be discussed why the reasoning doesn't apply to the definition or manner in which the word is being used. Otherwise, it seems that the main area of dispute, is to both be discussing the same thing.
Now I looked up the word "natural" in the Websters dictionary. There are a lot of definitions there (much more so than the one used above). And as is the nature of words, some uses may be quite divergent although understandably related, and some senses (in context of the surrounding words or the phrase used) may not even be in the dictionary or directly apply. It appears to me, where the conflict arises (and the time to quibble) is if reasoning from one sense is being wrongly applied to another sense. This is a fallacy (equivocation) and even then it can be discussed why the reasoning doesn't apply to the definition or manner in which the word is being used. Otherwise, it seems that the main area of dispute, is to both be discussing the same thing.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther