(March 2, 2018 at 8:04 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:(March 2, 2018 at 3:53 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: I don’t believe that is accurate for two reasons:
1. Recombination refers to electrons pairing up with protons. They existed separately as ionized plasma before. So there were matter before recombination, just not electrically neutral matter.
2. Even if there were not electrons and protons, If there were photons, there were gravity. Gravity is an artifact of energy in all forms, not just in matter form. If I am not mistaken, most of the gravity of normal matter is not from the rest mass of the particles with rest mass, but from binding energy that holds These particles together.
In relation to this discussion, I must disagree with both your points.
1.Quanta is not matter but the constituent parts of matter, just as hydrogen and oxygen are the constituent parts of water. That's why quantum mechanics is different from classical mechanics because qunta doesn't follow the laws of matter. The smallest unit of matter is the atom. There are hydrogen atoms. There aren't any hydrogen protons.
2. subatomic particles are held together by the strong force (gluons) which is entirely different from gravity. Before quanta were brought together by the strong force during recombination, there were no atoms, ergo, no matter. Photons may have produced gravity but gravity is a weak force. It wan't enough to held quarks together.
You have different definition of matter than is commonly used in physics and chemistry. Plasma is commonly referred to as the 4th phase of matter after solid, liquid, and gas. Plasma is atoms with one or more electrons separated from the nucleus. Prior to recombination the universe is suffused with a sea of Plasma.
But definition aside, it does not take neutral atoms to cause gravity. It does not even take protons or neutrons or electrons to create gravity. Smash matter into their continue to quarks, the shattered subatomic particles together with the liberated binding energy that formerly held together excertd precisely the same gravity as their when they were assembled into anything you might call matter.
The total gravitational energy of the universe is fixed, however the constituent parts of the universe evolves.
