RE: Why I'm here: a Muslim. My Philosophy in life. What is yours;Muslim?
May 21, 2018 at 4:08 am
(May 19, 2018 at 9:05 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:(May 19, 2018 at 7:14 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Just stressing on my answer: the Hadith cannot be trusted as an authentic source; i.e it doesn't satisfy the premise of it being a heavenly revelation.
What you mean to say is that it is your opinion that the hadith are unreliable. Other Muslims disagree with you. Are you the arbiter of what are and are not reliable accounts of Mohammed? Wikipedia has this to say about it's authority: "Quranic verses (such as 24:54, 33:21) enjoin Muslims to emulate Muhammad and obey his judgements, providing scriptural authority for ahadith." In addition, there does not appear to be an early tradition of Quranic authority and accurate preservation as Muslims claim, with the first manuscript copies of the Quran dating to 200 years after the time of Mohammed. What exactly is your so-called premise of it being a heavenly revelation? It doesn't appear that such is even necessary for the hadith to have authority.
No there are other Muslims with the same opinion, but they are not famous:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranism
Quote:Quranism (Arabic: القرآنية; al-Qur'āniyya) describes any form of Islam that accepts the Quran as revelation but rejects the religious authority, and/or authenticity of, the Hadith collections. Quranists follow the Quran alone; they believe that its message is clear and complete, and that it can therefore be fully understood without referencing the Hadith. They say that the Hadith literature was forged,[citation needed] as it had been written 250+ years after the death of the prophet Muhammad.
The concept exists from a very long time. I don't consider myself to be a part of the Quranism cult, but I sure am agreeing with on the Hadith for thee most part.
But I have some note on the verses (24:54 and 33:21):
For 24:54:
Quote:Sura 24, The Quran:
( 54 ) Say, "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn away - then upon him is only that [duty] with which he has been charged, and upon you is that with which you have been charged. And if you obey him, you will be [rightly] guided. And there is not upon the Messenger except the [responsibility for] clear notification."
But the prophet is dead. Does his death mean that I follow whatever is said to me about him?
Then I would be a follower of rumors. There is no way to make sure that what is said in the Hadith truly dates to his time; that's 250+ years after his death !
It's the same reason I cited in my previous comment: the literature cannot be trusted. It's not the authority of Mohammed that I'm rejecting; it's the authority of the Sunni/Shiite institution.
For 33:21
Quote:Sura 33, The Quran:
( 21 ) There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.
The commands of God to Mohammed is mentioned in the Quran. I expect him to follow all of them, and that is his pattern.
I don't need a book of rumors -Hadith- to distract me from the main Quranic verses.
Here's an example: Mohammed was ordered by God to pray in certain times:
Quote:Sura 29, The Quran:
( 45 ) Recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater. And Allah knows that which you do.
Quote:Sura 11, The Quran:
( 114 ) And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.
And there many many more of these orders to Mohammed, ranging from praying, to paying the poor.
The Hadith is not really needed.
Quote:I came across an interesting argument while googling.
Quote: Wrote:Premise 1: Either the Bible is the Word of God or it is not.
Premise 2: If the Bible is the Word of God, the Qur’an is not.
Premise 3: If the Bible is not the Word of God, the Qur’an is not.
Conclusion: Therefore, the Qur’an is not the Word of God.
A Simple Reason Why The Qur’an Cannot Be The Word of God
The complete original Bible doesn't exist today, at least this is what I understand from this Quranic verse:
Quote:Sura 5, The Quran:
( 47 ) And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
( 48 ) And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.
( 49 ) And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away - then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.
( 50 ) Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith].
I put a bold over the important parts.
The "people of the Gospel" have correct beliefs but their way is corrupted beyond repair, for a Muslim I cannot adapt verses from their books before consulting the Quran: i.e the inclinations of their scholars ruined the day.
And moreover, the Christians of today are not the same Christians of yesterday to my knowledge. From what I know, they did change a lot, and the Bible itself changed a lot. Towards more inclination if you ask me.