Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread

[The Grand Nudger]

That's ridiculous.  God is hardly the only transcendent x from which meaning in human lives is drawn.  We've been discussing a bunch of other transcendent x's for a couple of pages now. 

Go to any graveyard and look at any gravestone over 100 years old. The memories of that person do not exist in anyone anymore. That person has no current value or purpose because IMO, those are perceived qualities about a person. He certainly isn't perceiving that anymore. No one else alive remembers him. Any value he had to his family or society is long forgotten. In fact, it might have been the case that society would have been better if he were never born.  How is that transcendent meaning? 

I don;t have to perceive my own value to -be- valuable..so I don;t know why I;d have to be alive to have been or still be valuable.  Perhaps the people in those graveyards aren;t as forgettable as you're imagining, to say nothing of whatever they accomplished in life?  

That's just on an individual scale, and transcendence already expresses itself.  We're not at the point of entire families or projects or societies or cultures or civilizations or..for that matter..the totality of the human race and experience.  

Even the "bad examples" are transcendent precisely for having been bad examples.  

It;s transcendent in every way that any god has ever been, at least.  I don;t see the problem..perhaps you prefer some other transcendent thing or person, but okay..and so what?  

Why would meaning drawn from "other than god" be necessarily fleeting or subjective..and how does meaning drawn -from- god escape that even if god itself escapes?  Do gods escape, for that matter?  There are alot of dead gods that used to mean alot to alot of people who don;t mean anything now.

If God exists, we were made for a purpose and have value to an eternal and omniscient God. From that comes a meaning to life that transcends all time and avoids the problem of relying on yourself and others to provide subjective meaning. 

Firstly, the one doesn;t follow from the other in the slightest, but if meaning something to someone else qualifies as transcendence to you then I;m not sure why you just poo-pood entire graveyards full of people who just as easily mean something to someone else.  In what way do you avoid relying on others if you rely on god..are you god....and how is gods perception of your value supposed to be anything other than subjective in the same way?  

I agree, however, that for some people, any number of things x just isn't enough.  God wouldn;t be close to enough for me, for example.  More depressingly, though...for people incapable of finding meaning in any given moment, why would they assume they;d find meaning in eternity rather than an eternity of meaningless moments?  Perpetual unhappiness.

They would fine meaning because God made them, has a purpose for them, loves them and eternally cares what happens to them. They have value.

That;s just a small sliver of all potential or possible meaning and value..and I see nothing there that a human being can;t provide, or that would require a god...or even that you can demonstrate -is- provided by a god.

Some of us just don;t have to appeal to heaven to be loved or have value..don;t know what else to tell you, if you didn;t already know that...and ofc what you wrote really doesn;t have anything to do with what you quoted.
: shrugs :

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I will add this, though..that even from the standpoint of belief in some god..like yours..for example..such an unappreciative appraisal of this life you've been given and all the wonder and meaning and value that can be drawn from it seems......odd. I don;t have any trouble seeing the value in this life, you seem to think it;s some sort of impossibility. I really don;t know what could explain such a difference between us. While you contend that meaning is derived from your god..I contend that meaning transcends -all- gods...each one being a tiny speck in the larger pool of how we express that much greater set.