RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 24, 2018 at 11:20 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2018 at 11:21 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 24, 2018 at 10:58 am)SteveII Wrote: Sure, you don't have to perceive your own value to be valuable. But you do in order to perceive that your life has meaning. Otherwise it is just hope that something you do has some lasting value (and therefore meaning) in some sort of backward causality way. Say you live in a little insulated mountain town and a mudslide wipes out the whole town and everyone in it--erasing any effect that hundreds of people had on the greater world. They have no transcendent value/purpose and therefore meaning on the world. Or say a 10 year old child dies. What meaning will survive the memory of loved ones?Your objections just keep boiling down to "what if you die and no one remembers you"...well, try to make that something that doesn;t happen? If you don;t end up being remembered, though....that doesn;t mean that your life didn;t have transcendent value..it just means that no one remembers you today.
Quote:We are not using 'transcendent meaning' the same way. I am defining it as meaning that is "beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience". You are defining it as whatever meaning you can squeeze out of life that last for some period of time afterwards. You cannot have transcendent meaning without a transcendent entity that values you either for what you are or for what you did. In a godless world, everything you could possible describe as having meaning/value/purpose is subjective and relatively fleeting--lasting as long as your effect does.I know we're not using it the same way. You;re using it as a synonym for god-meaning, I have no such requirements, nor is there any such requirement. That;s all I;m stressing to you.
Quote:Sure humans can provide that. Not everyone has someone to provide it though. Whether you believe in God or not, it is incontrovertible that the belief of a loving God that cares for you because you have intrinsic value has an effect on the one that believes it. So, in that way, there is nothing that could replace that effect in the same way.IDK, I;m not having any trouble on that count..am I? Seems like your god was easily replaced....and the effect of what I find meaning in is more expansive than your god -in- the first place. Might not work for you...but that sounds like a you problem, not a meaning problem. At least I can own as much in my own case when I mention that god-meaning doesn;t work for me. Can you do the same?
Quote:Sure, there is tremendous value in this life. That's not the point. A godless worldview has a gap in it the shape of enduring/transcendent value/purpose and therefore meaning. This is important to a lot of people. Glad you have come to accept your gap. But it is a gap nonetheless.I don;t see the gap. You;d think I;d have fallen into it by now, but I haven;t. : shrugs :
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