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A question regarding proof
RE: A question regarding proof
(September 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: We cant observe the effects of a lobotomy by collecting data pre/post? We have to ask the patient if he feels different? A friend of my wife, for example, had surgery for a brain tumor, there is no one among us who can say that he is the same person. Not just how we percieve him, but even the way in which he signs his name has changed. Now, my one example would be insufficient to draw a conclusion. Fortunately we have many such examples, and this has of course been a productive area of nueroscience. We've even had an example of such experiments recently discussed on this forum of how changes in environment, even without changes in the brain) can cause changes in self (measured by observations of behaviour and activity) in the case of monkeys, rape benches, and the "pit of despair".

All very emotional instances, but the problem still remains, observation of mind is not possible, only observation of behavior, physical activity and subjective experience. A very simple analogy is a broken radio, if you can't hear the radio station is it correct to assume it is no longer there?

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Messages In This Thread
A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 6:10 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 6:32 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 6:52 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 7, 2011 at 6:35 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 7, 2011 at 6:48 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 7:02 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Bandoman - September 7, 2011 at 6:51 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 6:54 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 7:10 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 8:08 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 7, 2011 at 7:35 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 8:21 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 7, 2011 at 7:51 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 7, 2011 at 8:14 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 8:21 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 9:01 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 7, 2011 at 8:33 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 9:11 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 7, 2011 at 9:18 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 7, 2011 at 8:57 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 9:21 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 7, 2011 at 9:31 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 10:01 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 8, 2011 at 4:00 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 8:58 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 9:05 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 7, 2011 at 9:06 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 8, 2011 at 4:51 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 7, 2011 at 9:07 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 7, 2011 at 9:12 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 9:35 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 9:12 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 9:27 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 7, 2011 at 9:29 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 7, 2011 at 9:43 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 9:30 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 7, 2011 at 9:36 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 7, 2011 at 9:44 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 9:47 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 7, 2011 at 9:49 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 7, 2011 at 10:17 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2011 at 10:18 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 7, 2011 at 10:35 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Welsh cake - September 8, 2011 at 3:31 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 8, 2011 at 5:19 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 8, 2011 at 4:11 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 8, 2011 at 4:17 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 8, 2011 at 4:28 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 4:18 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by LastPoet - September 8, 2011 at 4:25 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 8, 2011 at 6:23 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 4:27 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Erinome - September 8, 2011 at 4:40 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 8, 2011 at 5:25 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 8, 2011 at 5:34 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 8, 2011 at 5:37 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Zen Badger - September 8, 2011 at 6:48 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by little_monkey - September 8, 2011 at 8:37 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 8, 2011 at 8:10 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by KichigaiNeko - September 8, 2011 at 9:10 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Ace Otana - September 8, 2011 at 9:24 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 8, 2011 at 12:22 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ElDinero - September 8, 2011 at 9:16 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by KichigaiNeko - September 8, 2011 at 9:20 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Welsh cake - September 8, 2011 at 10:18 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by downbeatplumb - September 8, 2011 at 12:42 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 1:09 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 8, 2011 at 2:41 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 8, 2011 at 2:46 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 10:20 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 9, 2011 at 2:39 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 8, 2011 at 2:51 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 2:48 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 8, 2011 at 5:09 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by ThomM - September 8, 2011 at 5:11 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 5:49 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 8, 2011 at 6:58 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 6:32 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Anomalocaris - September 8, 2011 at 6:36 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 8, 2011 at 10:36 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 7:08 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 8, 2011 at 10:54 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 8, 2011 at 9:53 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 9:57 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 10:39 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 8, 2011 at 11:20 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2011 at 3:38 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Ryft - September 9, 2011 at 2:41 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 9, 2011 at 1:35 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by little_monkey - September 9, 2011 at 5:05 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 9, 2011 at 9:07 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 2:56 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by little_monkey - September 9, 2011 at 7:16 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 9:08 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 10:56 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 11:07 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by Captain Scarlet - September 9, 2011 at 11:46 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by little_monkey - September 9, 2011 at 1:08 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 9, 2011 at 3:25 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 11:47 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 12:07 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 12:23 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 12:50 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 12:55 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 1:13 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by downbeatplumb - September 9, 2011 at 2:48 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 10, 2011 at 3:17 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2011 at 1:13 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 1:16 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2011 at 1:23 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 2:44 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 3:36 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 4:01 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 4:13 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 4:38 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Faith No More - September 9, 2011 at 4:41 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 9, 2011 at 5:57 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 4:42 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 5:02 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 5:13 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 9, 2011 at 8:11 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 5:13 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 5:20 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 5:40 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 5:46 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 5:53 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 5:57 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 6:10 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 6:11 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2011 at 8:10 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 9, 2011 at 8:34 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 8:14 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 9:00 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2011 at 9:19 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by popeyespappy - September 9, 2011 at 11:17 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 9, 2011 at 9:23 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by fr0d0 - September 9, 2011 at 10:49 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Ryft - September 10, 2011 at 12:31 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 10, 2011 at 1:56 am
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 10, 2011 at 3:29 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by frankiej - September 10, 2011 at 3:31 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Fred - September 10, 2011 at 4:24 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 10, 2011 at 4:29 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Ryft - September 10, 2011 at 5:08 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 10, 2011 at 5:14 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Skepsis - September 10, 2011 at 5:59 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 10, 2011 at 6:03 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Skepsis - September 10, 2011 at 6:10 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Ryft - September 10, 2011 at 9:08 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by The Grand Nudger - September 10, 2011 at 9:42 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by Ryft - September 15, 2011 at 11:56 pm
RE: A question regarding proof - by xxxtobymac - September 16, 2011 at 12:15 am

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