Substitutionary Atonement! WTF?

[Chad32]

Yes, he's supposed to be all knowing, so he knows exactly what I need to start believing he exists, and to convince me to start giving him a chance. Yet that hasn't happened.

Giving God a chance! God has already lived for an eternity and will continue on forevermore. You are the one who needs the chance it's you who needs redemption to have eternal life, not God. God is laying out before you your chance and He could only do that with the death and resurrection of Jesus. You are correct in say God knows what it will take to come to Him and if He has already presented it you have rejected it, maybe you need to look back through the history of your life and see, it is vital to find that calling. If as you say it hasn't happened yet it will and you should be keeping your ears open, the invitation is not something you should miss nor reject. Read the parable of the wedding feast it has information that will help.

He gave us free will, but there are many things that happen outside of our control. And when one evil person does something bad to his follower, he's basically choosing the evil person's free will over the victim. So the free will argument doesn't really slide. It also implies there's no free will in heaven, otherwise everyone would get kicked out eventually. And if there is free will in heaven, and it's working up there, why can't he make it work down here?

The bold by me doesn't really make sense, unless your saying God chooses to punish the evil doer for exercising his free will, well it's sin and sin must be punished. The victim didn't choose to have something bad happen to him by another person, that's what victim means.
There is free will in heave, in heaven we will understand the truth of God and who He is, we will have no desire to chose wrongly in heaven, we will chose to worship God instead because we will completely love Him. This argument atheist throw out when it comes to free will in heaven is no argument at all, you all have no understanding of God's work and who God is, you thus haven't a leg to stand on, why do you think Christians here always reject your claims about free will in heaven it's because that is all they are unfounded opinion. It can't work here because man has a sin nature about him and chooses to submit to the nature of self, now to understand this you might need to do a little Bible study, I've tried to explain it many times and no one seems to get it or they are just ignoring it, I believe it's the later. 

This makes me think that god doesn't understand the effects that death has on people. Because saying "he's in heaven with god" is never going to comfort anyone. Why aren't we killing every baby on the planet, then? If I truly believed they all go to heaven, then wouldn't I risk hell to ensure thousands, if not millions or billions of souls get heaven? It's a twisted concept to just say "well, babies that die get auto heaven". Besides, I don't remember any verses that explicitly state all children under a certain age go to heaven. Are you sure you're not the one picking and choosing what you believe?

Yes I'm sure I'm not picking and choosing, if I were then I would believe I was perfect and I know for a fact I'm not because I understand what the scriptures teach about me specifically. God has given a commandment of, do not murder and we are to obey that no matter what our intentions are, our intentions may seem correct when they are completely detirmental. Besides if you killed all the babies you would put an end to the human race and God nor man will allow such. You are trying to make an argument out of what God chooses to do with small children, I would think that people would be glad the little ones get into heaven. As for age that would depend on each child's development. Another thing you are over looking, Paul said he would gladly go to an eternal punishment if all the Jews could be saved but he then says this is not a possibility, He understood how god does things.
 God fully understands what it means for people to die, Jesus wept because of Lazarus's death and the effect it had on Martha. I just lost my mom and God has been with me, bringing me comfort because He knows it hurts deeply, even though I know she is in His presence, I miss her and what she brought to my life.

No, I know what it means when a guy orders people to go into a neighboring town to kill everyone except the virgin girls, and then hangs around to smell the blood and enjoy the carnage. It doesn't speak well of this god you worship.

God never said what you claim because you do not understand that somethings in the Bible are metaphors and I explained to you that meaning, it seems you have ignored what I said or stopped reading after the first sentence. If you can't except anything from people who know the things scriptures say then how can you possibly learn anything other than your own biased opinion.

When you say flaws aren't flaws when it's god, that's special pleading. Either jealousy is wrong, or it isn't. You can't just make an arbitrary exception.

Either killing a person is wrong or it isn't. By the above bold by me there would be no exceptions to killing, it all would be murder. So, no, I've not made an arbitrary exception even if the first part of your above reply is correct and it isn't. I never said God has a flaw of any kind that was you and you are wrong. Jealousy is an emotion, a thing that can just pop up even without warning, the wrong in jealousy is how you act upon it and I explained this in my last post to you, again you are not listening but rather acting on your biased opinion.

Apparently there is no stopping him. The world is often a horrible place, and it takes effort to keep going. It doesn't matter if you're the most devout follower of the correct god, your life is just as likely to suck as anyone else's. You'll get the same effect from worshiping Kim Jong Il.

 In that you are completely wrong, "Kim the little fatty," is considered a god in North Korea and worshiping him has gotten his people nothing but trouble, they are starving to death by the tens of thousands every month. Even his military are under nourished as reported by a defector from his army just recently. I on the other hand have a garden blessed by God to provide me with much good food even through the winter months. You are right the world is a horrible place and man has made it this way and we are reaping what we've sown, but the Christians of this world can avoid much of this mess by living for God and keeping out of worldly living. Believe me when I tell you this, I know many Christians who live for God and worry little about the world that is falling apart, they have trust in God to care for them, as I do. We are concerned for those who are lost in the world, If I wasn't I would not be here and because of the debate the Christians had I'm considering leaving soon to re-evaluate if being here is actually worth what I'm missing out on in life.

GC

I don't care for eternal life, or to be judge by someone who is a bigger screwup than I am. So what if he's eternal? That means he's had all the time in the world to get things right, and still hasn't figured it out yet. How much more time are we going to give him before you stop blaming limited people, and start thinking maybe it's him? Maybe he's the problem all along.

Well think about the idea of free will. The victim didn't choose to have something bad happen. But the criminal is taking their free will away from them by forcing them to do something. And your god, who is supposed to be all present, and capable of stopping it, decides the criminal's free will is a higher priority than the victim's. This is why we say that if you see someone committing a crime, and can stop the person without risking your well being doing so, then you're partially responsible. If there's free will in heaven, it's possible for people to choose "wrongly", and get kicked out. It happened before, when a third of the population of angels decided they didn't like how god ran things, despite knowing him perfectly well. So even if I got to heaven, I doubt I'd be staying there for an eternity. I'd just be paying lip service anyway, after all.

If all children go to heaven, and people were really ok with that, then we'd have a lot more people killing kids right after they said the lord's prayer, and got saved. Why take the chance that they change their mind and lose their shot. You're right that Humans wouldn't allow that to happen, because it's a sick thing to think about. Your god allowed it to happen once before, except for saving eight people, and plans to set the world on fire if you believe in the end times. He's a god of blood and death. He doesn't care about anything besides himself. You're only useful to him as a worshiper, and he will kill you and cast you aside if you refuse to do so. Which ironically makes him unworthy of worship.

If part of the bible is a metaphor, what's to keep us from believing the whole thing is a metaphor? Up to and including Yahweh and Jesus?

There are good arguments for killing never being good. And we both know what god thinks of thoughts that just pop up from time to time. That they're apparently as bad as actions. Jealousy stems from low self esteem. Because apparently he doesn't like competing with fake gods, and doesn't think too hard about why Humans would rather worship fake gods than the real one.

Yes, NK is a bad place, and a lot of bad things happen, but for some people, especially those who worship Kimmy, sometimes good things happen. Step out of line, and he'll have you killed or make you disappear, but if you grovel to him enough, he might favor you and give you something nice. That's the same deal with Yahweh. Except we can meet Kim, and prove he exists rather easily.