(June 12, 2018 at 2:01 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(June 12, 2018 at 1:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: I CAN look, you know.

If you look at another pitcher you;ve already sinned in your heart. Do you know what Nolan Ryan does to sinners!

What about a catcher?

The place for a catcher is squatting over the plate gloving the pitchers balls.  Period.  Anything else is a sin.

(June 12, 2018 at 9:10 am)Chad32 Wrote:

(June 12, 2018 at 2:08 am)Godscreated Wrote: But He has because He is the real God, the others never died so they couldn't have been risen, they are not real, they are truly the ones who are hiding away.


 How many time s must the Christians here tell everyone that God doesn't kill people for not worshiping Him. You are judged because you do not accept Jesus as your savior, when you do accept Him you will have no trouble worshiping Him. Worshiping God entails many different things and probably none of the things you would actually admit to. 
 What makes you believe He did not have to curse the world, please show me from the reference book called the Bible because that is the only place that kind of information can come from, I say He had no other choice, man left Him with only the one thing to do, you see there is choice and there are consequences to choice, good and bad.
 The Bible chronicles no such thing, it does show how humanity has failed to listen to Him and the need for a savior for everyone. By the way He did not sacrifice himself to himself, man put Jesus on the cross and killed Him in a extremely violent way. When the Jews sacrificed animals they cut the throat so the animal bleed out quickly and suffered little. Done correctly the animal can still breath and it goes to sleep, kinda' like euthanaisa except for the pain of the cut and with a very sharp knife that isn't as painful as people imagine. God has never said He was wrong because He has never been wrong, millions are saved every year.

GC

As far as anyone has concretely proven, no gods are real. Abrahamic ones, or otherwise.

Worshiping him is exactly what "accepting Jesus" means. And yes, his entire problem with Humanity is apparently that he wants to be worshiped, and is not.

It's not that He wants to be worshiped He deserves to be worshiped, He is after all the one who allowed you to wake up this morning, then enjoy a beautiful day with all the wonderful things He created. That's just for starters the list would be never ending.

Chad32 Wrote:Of course he didn't have to curse the entire world when two people disobeyed him once. It's asinine to think he had to have that much of a problem with it. Hell, that wasn't even part of the warning from before. He said they'd die that day. He didn't mention any world cursing. But instead of doing what he told them would happen, he let Adam live over 900 years, and cursed the world. Does he have control over his powers and how the world operates, or not?

You can't understand that God's creation was absolutely perfect and when Adam and Eve disobeyed they brought evil into this perfect world an evil that has slowly eaten away at this world and the people who occupy it. The curse is this, God did not stop this slow destruction, He allowed it to continue and it will until the day Christ returns. It was part of the warning because they did die, first a spiritual separation from God, then the physical death. He didn't call what was to come the "curse" per se, but I think the word death was vivid enough wouldn't you. God has complete control, He has allowed you to say all sorts of negative and vile things about Him and you're still with us. 

Chad32 Wrote:He has never had a problem with inflicting pain on third parties when someone does something he doesn't like. Killing children for the crimes of their parents isn't something he ever had to do. He just felt like doing it.

When did God kill children because of what there parents did. If you're talking about the parents sins being pass down to the third and forth generations, then you have little understanding of the scriptures and what they say. The children will suffer the same sins because the parents have taught them it's okay to do those sinful things and each generation will continue to do so. You also need to understand who God was speaking to and why and that they were warned before they said they would obey all God's commandments and worship Him only, God told them what would happen if they made and then broke their promise. God never does something just because He feels like it, that's a human weakness, God is totally responsible in what actions He takes, His omnipresence assures that if nothing else.

Chad32 Wrote:He has been wrong. Never admitting when you messed up just makes the problem worse, because it means you won't change. How you kill an innocent animal or person doesn't really matter. The fact that you're doing it at all is the messed up part.

 Who are you to judge God, you're a being that has lived for a moment in time and God has lived for an eternity, He has witnessed it all before it ever happened, He understands the outcomes and how they will effect everything. God is perfect and unchanging, this is why Christians can live a life assured God will do as He said He would do. I'm not sure where you got your disassembled ideas about God but where ever they came from you have been shown wrong and should investigate for yourself who God is.

GC

(June 13, 2018 at 1:16 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 12, 2018 at 9:10 am)Chad32 Wrote: As far as anyone has concretely proven, no gods are real. Abrahamic ones, or otherwise.

Worshiping him is exactly what "accepting Jesus" means. And yes, his entire problem with Humanity is apparently that he wants to be worshiped, and is not.

It's not that He wants to be worshiped He deserves to be worshiped, He is after all the one who allowed you to wake up this morning, then enjoy a beautiful day with all the wonderful things He created. That's just for starters the list would be never ending.

Chad32 Wrote:Of course he didn't have to curse the entire world when two people disobeyed him once. It's asinine to think he had to have that much of a problem with it. Hell, that wasn't even part of the warning from before. He said they'd die that day. He didn't mention any world cursing. But instead of doing what he told them would happen, he let Adam live over 900 years, and cursed the world. Does he have control over his powers and how the world operates, or not?

You can't understand that God's creation was absolutely perfect and when Adam and Eve disobeyed they brought evil into this perfect world an evil that has slowly eaten away at this world and the people who occupy it. The curse is this, God did not stop this slow destruction, He allowed it to continue and it will until the day Christ returns. It was part of the warning because they did die, first a spiritual separation from God, then the physical death. He didn't call what was to come the "curse" per se, but I think the word death was vivid enough wouldn't you. God has complete control, He has allowed you to say all sorts of negative and vile things about Him and you're still with us. 

Chad32 Wrote:He has never had a problem with inflicting pain on third parties when someone does something he doesn't like. Killing children for the crimes of their parents isn't something he ever had to do. He just felt like doing it.

When did God kill children because of what there parents did. If you're talking about the parents sins being pass down to the third and forth generations, then you have little understanding of the scriptures and what they say. The children will suffer the same sins because the parents have taught them it's okay to do those sinful things and each generation will continue to do so. You also need to understand who God was speaking to and why and that they were warned before they said they would obey all God's commandments and worship Him only, God told them what would happen if they made and then broke their promise. God never does something just because He feels like it, that's a human weakness, God is totally responsible in what actions He takes, His omnipresence assures that if nothing else.

Chad32 Wrote:He has been wrong. Never admitting when you messed up just makes the problem worse, because it means you won't change. How you kill an innocent animal or person doesn't really matter. The fact that you're doing it at all is the messed up part.

 Who are you to judge God, you're a being that has lived for a moment in time and God has lived for an eternity, He has witnessed it all before it ever happened, He understands the outcomes and how they will effect everything. God is perfect and unchanging, this is why Christians can live a life assured God will do as He said He would do. I'm not sure where you got your disassembled ideas about God but where ever they came from you have been shown wrong and should investigate for yourself who God is.

GC

No, there is no magic that wakes me up in the morning. Am I also supposed to thank my parents that they didn't murder me in my sleep every night when I lived with them? Is that the kind of relationship I should be having with anyone?

It's not that I don't understand absolute perfection. It's that it doesn't make sense. If it was absolutely perfect, then nothing would ever go wrong. If something is capable of going wrong in an absolutely perfect world, then what is perfect supposed to mean?

No, I'm talking about this god killing children because their parents did something wrong. Like in exodus, or when David screwed up. And saying that if they grew up, they'd be learning the same things their parents did doesn't excuse it. There are a lot of other ways to improve societies without killing people. Your god just likes to kill people, and enjoys the smell of blood. And yes, the bible does specifically say he enjoys the smell of blood. I'll clarify that for you, after you apparently admitted you weren't aware he also kills children, which should be common knowledge to anyone with cursory knowledge of the bible.

I'm a person with thoughts and feelings too. I know that change is a necessary thing, and if you refuse to change that's a flaw. Jealousy is also a flaw, by the way. Society has improved to the point where dictators are looked down upon. I was born in one that's supposed to encourage freedom of speech, where the people who run the country are supposed to be public servants, not rulers. Why shouldn't I air my thoughts, and give criticism to the character of Yahweh/Jehova? What sort of relationship are you guys trying to sell, that I'm expected to never question the other side?

(June 13, 2018 at 8:34 am)Chad32 Wrote:

(June 13, 2018 at 1:16 am)Godscreated Wrote: It's not that He wants to be worshiped He deserves to be worshiped, He is after all the one who allowed you to wake up this morning, then enjoy a beautiful day with all the wonderful things He created. That's just for starters the list would be never ending.


You can't understand that God's creation was absolutely perfect and when Adam and Eve disobeyed they brought evil into this perfect world an evil that has slowly eaten away at this world and the people who occupy it. The curse is this, God did not stop this slow destruction, He allowed it to continue and it will until the day Christ returns. It was part of the warning because they did die, first a spiritual separation from God, then the physical death. He didn't call what was to come the "curse" per se, but I think the word death was vivid enough wouldn't you. God has complete control, He has allowed you to say all sorts of negative and vile things about Him and you're still with us. 


When did God kill children because of what there parents did. If you're talking about the parents sins being pass down to the third and forth generations, then you have little understanding of the scriptures and what they say. The children will suffer the same sins because the parents have taught them it's okay to do those sinful things and each generation will continue to do so. You also need to understand who God was speaking to and why and that they were warned before they said they would obey all God's commandments and worship Him only, God told them what would happen if they made and then broke their promise. God never does something just because He feels like it, that's a human weakness, God is totally responsible in what actions He takes, His omnipresence assures that if nothing else.


 Who are you to judge God, you're a being that has lived for a moment in time and God has lived for an eternity, He has witnessed it all before it ever happened, He understands the outcomes and how they will effect everything. God is perfect and unchanging, this is why Christians can live a life assured God will do as He said He would do. I'm not sure where you got your disassembled ideas about God but where ever they came from you have been shown wrong and should investigate for yourself who God is.

GC

No, there is no magic that wakes me up in the morning. Am I also supposed to thank my parents that they didn't murder me in my sleep every night when I lived with them? Is that the kind of relationship I should be having with anyone?

Waking up in the morning doesn't mean God has spared your life, it means He is giving you another day to find Him. God knows whether you will find Him or not before your life is over, yet He still gives you another day each day you wake up. Your life like everyone else has an appointed end.

Chad32 Wrote:It's not that I don't understand absolute perfection. It's that it doesn't make sense. If it was absolutely perfect, then nothing would ever go wrong. If something is capable of going wrong in an absolutely perfect world, then what is perfect supposed to mean?

By the things you've said in posts I do not believe you do know what absolute perfection is, not in the case of the creation and God's love for mankind. Free will was part of the creation and being so meant that God placed His perfect creation in the way of man's ability to choose wrongly. To have controlled man from making a wrong choice would mean God wasn't the God who could take care of the bad situation man put the creation in. He has and will. 

Chad32 Wrote:No, I'm talking about this god killing children because their parents did something wrong. Like in exodus, or when David screwed up. And saying that if they grew up, they'd be learning the same things their parents did doesn't excuse it. There are a lot of other ways to improve societies without killing people. Your god just likes to kill people, and enjoys the smell of blood. And yes, the bible does specifically say he enjoys the smell of blood. I'll clarify that for you, after you apparently admitted you weren't aware he also kills children, which should be common knowledge to anyone with cursory knowledge of the bible.

That child of David's is in heaven with God, he is in a far better place than we are and has life eternal with God. David was the one punished not the child, the child received eternal life and David had to grieve his loss. You see if you are going to assume God you must assume all that He does, all. You can't choose to call Him a murderer and forget that He gives eternal life to the child, that is where atheist go wrong, they pick out what they want to believe about God and not understand that there is much more to Him than they want to believe. I could say more about this but for now I'll leave it alone.

You do not know what the smell of blood means because you do not know what the Bible teaches. You are clueless to the fact that the blood represents the forgiveness of sin and it is this forgiveness that God loves. Before God scattered the Jewish people by allowing them to be conquered He told them He was tired of their sacrifices and He would not forgive them and hated the smells of the sacrifice. Essentially He was telling them they were wasting His time, their time and the lives of innocent animals and He was not going to help them through this again. You see my knowledge is more than cursory.  

Chad32 Wrote:I'm a person with thoughts and feelings too. I know that change is a necessary thing, and if you refuse to change that's a flaw. Jealousy is also a flaw, by the way. Society has improved to the point where dictators are looked down upon. I was born in one that's supposed to encourage freedom of speech, where the people who run the country are supposed to be public servants, not rulers. Why shouldn't I air my thoughts, and give criticism to the character of Yahweh/Jehova? What sort of relationship are you guys trying to sell, that I'm expected to never question the other side?

 Change is not necessary for a perfect being and neither is jealousy wrong for a perfect being. Now change is necessary for the flawed and jealousy can be wrong in a person if they act unjustly upon that jealousy. Hey listen I've questioned God, but knowing He is the perfect being I ask Him to show me the truth because I know I'm flawed in my understanding of what God has done or is doing. If God were the dictator you want to believe Him to be do you really believe He would stop tormenting you every minute of your life, do you really believe He would need a hell to do so, you should think this over carefully. An omnipotent God that has no controlling traits would be the worse thing ever, there would be no stopping Him and if He were the terrible, manipulative being you believe He is then life would never be worth living, this in itself should show you that there is a God and that He is who He says He is and that you are the one who is mistaken about Him in all areas.

GC

(June 14, 2018 at 2:01 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 13, 2018 at 8:34 am)Chad32 Wrote: No, there is no magic that wakes me up in the morning. Am I also supposed to thank my parents that they didn't murder me in my sleep every night when I lived with them? Is that the kind of relationship I should be having with anyone?

Waking up in the morning doesn't mean God has spared your life, it means He is giving you another day to find Him. God knows whether you will find Him or not before your life is over, yet He still gives you another day each day you wake up. Your life like everyone else has an appointed end.

Chad32 Wrote:It's not that I don't understand absolute perfection. It's that it doesn't make sense. If it was absolutely perfect, then nothing would ever go wrong. If something is capable of going wrong in an absolutely perfect world, then what is perfect supposed to mean?

By the things you've said in posts I do not believe you do know what absolute perfection is, not in the case of the creation and God's love for mankind. Free will was part of the creation and being so meant that God placed His perfect creation in the way of man's ability to choose wrongly. To have controlled man from making a wrong choice would mean God wasn't the God who could take care of the bad situation man put the creation in. He has and will. 

Chad32 Wrote:No, I'm talking about this god killing children because their parents did something wrong. Like in exodus, or when David screwed up. And saying that if they grew up, they'd be learning the same things their parents did doesn't excuse it. There are a lot of other ways to improve societies without killing people. Your god just likes to kill people, and enjoys the smell of blood. And yes, the bible does specifically say he enjoys the smell of blood. I'll clarify that for you, after you apparently admitted you weren't aware he also kills children, which should be common knowledge to anyone with cursory knowledge of the bible.

That child of David's is in heaven with God, he is in a far better place than we are and has life eternal with God. David was the one punished not the child, the child received eternal life and David had to grieve his loss. You see if you are going to assume God you must assume all that He does, all. You can't choose to call Him a murderer and forget that He gives eternal life to the child, that is where atheist go wrong, they pick out what they want to believe about God and not understand that there is much more to Him than they want to believe. I could say more about this but for now I'll leave it alone.

You do not know what the smell of blood means because you do not know what the Bible teaches. You are clueless to the fact that the blood represents the forgiveness of sin and it is this forgiveness that God loves. Before God scattered the Jewish people by allowing them to be conquered He told them He was tired of their sacrifices and He would not forgive them and hated the smells of the sacrifice. Essentially He was telling them they were wasting His time, their time and the lives of innocent animals and He was not going to help them through this again. You see my knowledge is more than cursory.  

Chad32 Wrote:I'm a person with thoughts and feelings too. I know that change is a necessary thing, and if you refuse to change that's a flaw. Jealousy is also a flaw, by the way. Society has improved to the point where dictators are looked down upon. I was born in one that's supposed to encourage freedom of speech, where the people who run the country are supposed to be public servants, not rulers. Why shouldn't I air my thoughts, and give criticism to the character of Yahweh/Jehova? What sort of relationship are you guys trying to sell, that I'm expected to never question the other side?

 Change is not necessary for a perfect being and neither is jealousy wrong for a perfect being. Now change is necessary for the flawed and jealousy can be wrong in a person if they act unjustly upon that jealousy. Hey listen I've questioned God, but knowing He is the perfect being I ask Him to show me the truth because I know I'm flawed in my understanding of what God has done or is doing. If God were the dictator you want to believe Him to be do you really believe He would stop tormenting you every minute of your life, do you really believe He would need a hell to do so, you should think this over carefully. An omnipotent God that has no controlling traits would be the worse thing ever, there would be no stopping Him and if He were the terrible, manipulative being you believe He is then life would never be worth living, this in itself should show you that there is a God and that He is who He says He is and that you are the one who is mistaken about Him in all areas.

GC

Yes, he's supposed to be all knowing, so he knows exactly what I need to start believing he exists, and to convince me to start giving him a chance. Yet that hasn't happened.

He gave us free will, but there are many things that happen outside of our control. And when one evil person does something bad to his follower, he's basically choosing the evil person's free will over the victim. So the free will argument doesn't really slide. It also implies there's no free will in heaven, otherwise everyone would get kicked out eventually. And if there is free will in heaven, and it's working up there, why can't he make it work down here?

This makes me think that god doesn't understand the effects that death has on people. Because saying "he's in heaven with god" is never going to comfort anyone. Why aren't we killing every baby on the planet, then? If I truly believed they all go to heaven, then wouldn't I risk hell to ensure thousands, if not millions or billions of souls get heaven? It's a twisted concept to just say "well, babies that die get auto heaven". Besides, I don't remember any verses that explicitly state all children under a certain age go to heaven. Are you sure you're not the one picking and choosing what you believe?

No, I know what it means when a guy orders people to go into a neighboring town to kill everyone except the virgin girls, and then hangs around to smell the blood and enjoy the carnage. It doesn't speak well of this god you worship.

When you say flaws aren't flaws when it's god, that's special pleading. Either jealousy is wrong, or it isn't. You can't just make an arbitrary exception.

Apparently there is no stopping him. The world is often a horrible place, and it takes effort to keep going. It doesn't matter if you're the most devout follower of the correct god, your life is just as likely to suck as anyone else's. You'll get the same effect from worshiping Kim Jong Il.

Did someone say God can only show us love by causing/allowing horrible things to happen and then (partly) rectifying some of them? (Paraphrasing)

This sounds like some underachiever who is desperate for validation and so develops a hero complex. They go around planting bombs just so they can diffuse them. They plant so many that a lot of people get killed before they get round to diffusing them, but people won't be able to feel the relief from not being blown up (what this guy sees as love) unless they supply this danger.

It's weird, I can show my love just by being nice to someone. And I can do so even if nothing horrible ever happens to them.

Underachiever is pretty much it. The world is messed up, and his best idea is only going to get a fraction of humanity into heaven, but we're still expected to praise him anyway? Are we going to give every sociopath a cookie every day they don't go on a killing spree? That's where we set the bar here? Every father gets a medal because they don't beat their disobedient child's head in. Because god knows they deserve to die for not being perfect.

(June 13, 2018 at 1:16 am)Godscreated Wrote: . . . .


 Who are you to judge God, you're a being that has lived for a moment in time and God has lived for an eternity, He has witnessed it all before it ever happened, He understands the outcomes and how they will effect everything. God is perfect and unchanging, this is why Christians can live a life assured God will do as He said He would do. I'm not sure where you got your disassembled ideas about God but where ever they came from you have been shown wrong and should investigate for yourself who God is.

GC

God is omnipotent and can change His mind whenever He wants.

1 Samuel 15 (KJV)
35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

(June 12, 2018 at 10:20 am)Drich Wrote: The biggest comes in the way of one of the 10 commandments. in the original king jame translation we were told "thou shalt not Kill." which could mean the prohibition of the taking of any human life no matter the reason. And in the older version found mid twentith century it is translated "you shall not murder." meaning you can not take life without approval from your superior/governing body.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textus_Receptus

What the fuck are you talking about?????? 

In other words: you shall murder as long as someone else with more authority tells you to or that it's OK." 

You are definitely screwed up in the head. The mob would love you. You're defense attorney, not so much.