RE: "Jesus would rather kill, not marry, gay people" - Franklin Graham
July 27, 2018 at 10:04 am
(This post was last modified: July 27, 2018 at 10:19 am by Angrboda.)
Quote:Same-sex precedence
Ancient Romans, or at least Roman men with power and wealth, could marry same-sex partners, said Elizabeth Abbott, author of "A History of Marriage" (Seven Stories Press, 2011).
Emperor Nero (ruled A.D. 54 to A.D. 68) castrated a boy named Sporus to make him womanlike, and then married him in a traditional ceremony, which included a bridal veil and a dowry, according to the Roman historian and biographer Suetonius (circa A.D. 69).
Emperor Elagabalus (ruled A.D. 218 to A.D. 222) married Zoticus, a famous male athlete, and referred to his slave, a man named Hierocles, as his husband, Abbott said.
There are also texts referring to lesbian relationships, but not marriages, in ancient Rome, Abbott said. Perhaps these women did not have enough power or influence to actually marry, she said.
"Wealthy, powerful men in ancient Rome could do it, and find ways of doing it because they were rich and powerful," Abbott told Live Science. However, it doesn't appear that same-sex marriage was widespread in ancient Rome.
"In other words, it was a thought people had," Abbott said. "But there were very few people who were actually able to do it."
In another instance, some Native American peoples, such as the Crow, participated in same-sex marriages, although their culture likely viewed it another way, said Helen Boyd, a lecturer of gender studies at Lawrence University in Wisconsin.
Some Native American societies accepted the idea that some people have "two spirits" (the term "berdache" is also used, but some people consider it offensive). People with two spirits had both maleness and femaleness inside of them, and could marry someone who was the same biological sex, Boyd said. [10 Wedding Traditions from Around the World]
For instance, a biological male with two spirits could live as a woman and marry a man, Boyd said.
Woman-woman marriages
Across the world, there were societies in pre-colonial Africa that permitted women to marry other women. These marriages typically helped widowed women who didn't want to remarry a man or return to their family or their husband's family after the husband's death, according to a 2009 research article published in the journal Global South by Marc Epprecht, the professor and head of global development studies at Queens University in Canada.
Instead, the widow could pay a bride price and perform other rituals needed to marry another woman, Epprecht said.
The widow would then act as the husband in the relationship, and preserve her inheritance and family lineage, Epprecht said. Another man could impregnate the widow's wife, but he would have no claims on the child. Instead, the woman-woman duo would raise the child, Epprecht said.
"A central thing in African political and social thought is belonging to someone," said Thomas McClendon, a professor of history at Southwestern University in Texas. "You're someone's daughter or son, and you eventually become an ancestor when you die.
"It's important to have descendants," McClendon said. "This is a way in which women could achieve that status even if they didn't have a husband."
There are other examples of same-sex marriage: The Muxe of southern Mexico were biological males who lived as women and were allowed to marry men; the Fa'afafine of Samoa have a similar setup, as do the Hijra in India and Pakistan, and the Kathoey in Thailand, Boyd said.
"Westerners tend to put these people in the 'gay' box, so their marriages are — to our eyes — same-sex marriages, even though they are, more specifically, marriages between two differently gendered people," Boyd said.
There have always been gay people, and they've often married, "just not to each other," Abbott said.
"In my marriage book, I talk about the terrible, the dire consequences of forcing people to marry against their instincts, their orientation," Abbott said. "Historically, you had lots of unhappy marriages, probably for that reason."
LiveScience | What the Supreme Court Missed
And then there's the example of homosexual individuals in heterosexual marriages which likely has a long history and raises questions about the function of marriage, identity, prejudice, and religious proscriptions in history in societies that actively discouraged same sex partnering. At the very least, it seems to imply a desire was there that in large measure was frustrated by religious and legal prohibitions, the absence of appropriate institutions, and violence and prejudice, rather than an actual reflection of individual choice.
Quote:Instead, I’ve decided to not only share excerpts from my book about the journey, but to first, provide personal experiences from a sampling of fellow travelers who chose to say “I do” for all the wrong reasons.
The Sampling: Men, ages 30 to 60. Baby boomers and Gen X’ers. Most tied the knot with their wives between the ages of 21 - 35, and between the years of 1973 - 2002. Their marriages lasted from 8 - 38 years.
Reasons They Chose To Get Married (Here’s where you’re invited to open your minds and listen carefully!)
• I had great parents that I loved very much and I didn’t want to disappoint them so I thought I could overcome by gay feelings by getting married and having kids.
• I truly believed that if I did all the right things, God would honor my obedience and ‘make it work.’
• I married my best friend. I wanted to create a life and a family with her. I did what I wanted to do, not so much what society said I should do, and I don’t regret that. I thought it would take away the thoughts and feelings I had for men.
• I got married because I wanted to achieve an ideal of normalcy that was based on convictions that were thrust upon me by my family and religion, not on the convictions that I ever carved out on my own. I obediently did what was expected of me because I thought I had no other choice.
• I wanted to do anything that might make me straight.
• I believed that IF I didn’t get married everyone would know or somehow find out that I was GAY!
• I married because I wasn’t strong enough to stand up to family, religion, and society. I was born and raised by homophobic people and structures, and I was persuaded to be a homophobic gay man.
• In very conservative Christian circles, it was just expected that marriage and having kids was the way. If I came out back then, I would have gotten kicked out of the church. I just thought it was the right thing to do — deep down inside. I suppose, I thought it would fix me. I was too afraid of letting the real me out — it was safer to hide in a marriage.
• I wanted the suspicions of “he’s gotta be gay” to stop. I wanted to honor my faith. I wanted to have sex. I was certain that sex with a woman would make the gay feelings go away. It did for about 5 years. I wanted to be normal.
• I was anxious about it but had hope that someday I could be fully attracted to her. If I did the right things, was faithful, and continued in my commitment to her that God would honor that and allow me to achieve my goals.
• I thought that marriage would cause me to fit in and be like everyone else. I had never fit in...I was picked on and bullied my entire life and I wanted to be in society.
• I wanted to be “normal” and “straight.” I truly loved my wife. She was my best friend. I wanted a family and to have the “American Dream” I felt I could never have as a gay man. I wanted to deny the gay in me and live a straight life.
As you can see/hear, if you’re willing to observe/listen to these men’s beautiful and painful stories, it’s not as black and white as one might think, to honor one’s self and be all the colors of the gay rainbow. But let’s also look deeper at the commonalities of reasoning — religion, family expectations, societal shame, decades of the ‘70s, ‘80s, and ‘90s when gay anything was a dirty word, even if it was becoming more mainstream to talk about.
Frankly My Dear... Gay Men Marry Straight Women! Here’s Why!
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