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A Book?
RE: A Book?
(May 20, 2009 at 6:26 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
(May 20, 2009 at 4:59 pm)lilphil1989 Wrote: Without evidence, how do you decide what is meaningless, and what isn't?

Using rationalisation

Surely rationalisation has to be based on some kind of evidence?
If not, can you describe the rationalisation for me?

(May 20, 2009 at 6:26 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
(May 20, 2009 at 4:59 pm)lilphil1989 Wrote:
(May 20, 2009 at 4:32 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you meant that you had observed things that applied.
So you're saying that everything in the bible is direct observation?

I didn't say that. There are observations of God. Of Gods involvement & interactions with humans...
I think that observation is too strong a word, in that they could just as easily be purely fiction.
But anyway, how do these "observations" apply to your life?

The gospel of the flying spaghetti monster contains observations about His noodly holiness.
Whether or not they are true is a different matter.

(May 20, 2009 at 6:26 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
(May 20, 2009 at 4:59 pm)lilphil1989 Wrote:
(May 20, 2009 at 4:32 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Show me where in the Bible it says that the Sun orbits the earth.

Psalm 93:
The world is firmly established;
it cannot be moved.

In Joshua 10, the sun is made to "stand still". But in a solar-centric model of the solar system this is meaningless.

Psalm 93 - you can't be serious!

Why not? This part isn't meant to be taken literally because..... ?
Describe your process of differentiating between fact, fiction and metaphor.

(May 20, 2009 at 6:26 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Very obviously the story in Joshua is allegorical. I'll place you in the nutters pigeonhole with the Creationists then.

How do you decide what is allegorical and what literal truth?
Personal incredulity?
Random choice?
Social acceptability? (e.g "all the parts where god condones slavery must be metaphorical, because it's socially unacceptabe to condone slavery")

And as Kyu rightly pointed out, your decision on what's true could differ wildly to another christian's.
But the truth isn't open to decisions on what's true. The truth is the truth.
So for your bible to hold any truth value at all there must be a reliable, consistent, way of choosing truth, that is independant of the "chooser".

(May 20, 2009 at 6:26 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: It follows the logic. Brings the benefits promised from the rationalisations leading to the reasons for leaping.

What are the benefits?
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
Reply



Messages In This Thread
A Book? - by g-mark - May 4, 2009 at 5:46 am
RE: A Book? - by leo-rcc - May 4, 2009 at 5:51 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 4, 2009 at 5:54 am
RE: A Book? - by leo-rcc - May 4, 2009 at 5:57 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 4, 2009 at 6:27 am
RE: A Book? - by Dotard - May 4, 2009 at 7:09 am
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 4, 2009 at 7:52 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 4, 2009 at 7:53 am
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 4, 2009 at 5:15 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 4, 2009 at 6:17 pm
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 5, 2009 at 5:46 am
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 5, 2009 at 1:48 pm
RE: A Book? - by Minimalist - August 12, 2009 at 8:00 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 5, 2009 at 2:17 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 5, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 5, 2009 at 3:57 pm
RE: A Book? - by Tiberius - May 5, 2009 at 4:16 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 5, 2009 at 4:28 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 5, 2009 at 4:31 pm
RE: A Book? - by Demonaura - May 5, 2009 at 4:32 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 5, 2009 at 4:36 pm
RE: A Book? - by Tiberius - May 5, 2009 at 4:38 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 5, 2009 at 4:48 pm
RE: A Book? - by Tiberius - May 5, 2009 at 4:54 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 5, 2009 at 4:58 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 5, 2009 at 5:00 pm
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 6, 2009 at 1:10 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 6, 2009 at 12:03 pm
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 6, 2009 at 2:07 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 7, 2009 at 12:36 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 7, 2009 at 3:52 pm
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 8, 2009 at 9:18 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 8, 2009 at 2:10 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 8, 2009 at 9:45 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 9, 2009 at 1:15 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2009 at 4:53 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 9, 2009 at 4:58 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2009 at 5:22 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 9, 2009 at 5:32 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2009 at 6:04 pm
RE: A Book? - by Ace Otana - May 9, 2009 at 6:20 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2009 at 6:27 pm
RE: A Book? - by Ace Otana - May 9, 2009 at 6:35 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 9, 2009 at 7:08 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 10, 2009 at 3:36 am
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 13, 2009 at 11:56 am
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 10, 2009 at 8:29 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2009 at 9:48 am
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 10, 2009 at 10:37 am
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 10, 2009 at 11:09 am
RE: A Book? - by Darwinian - May 10, 2009 at 11:12 am
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 10, 2009 at 11:18 am
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 10, 2009 at 12:08 pm
RE: A Book? - by Darwinian - May 10, 2009 at 1:31 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 10, 2009 at 1:59 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2009 at 2:23 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 10, 2009 at 3:14 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2009 at 3:40 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 10, 2009 at 4:02 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2009 at 5:43 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 10, 2009 at 6:17 pm
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 10, 2009 at 11:00 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2009 at 8:55 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 11, 2009 at 12:37 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2009 at 12:43 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 11, 2009 at 12:55 pm
RE: A Book? - by Ace Otana - May 11, 2009 at 5:09 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2009 at 4:33 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 11, 2009 at 6:18 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2009 at 6:25 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 11, 2009 at 7:09 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2009 at 7:37 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 12, 2009 at 5:23 pm
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 12, 2009 at 4:30 am
RE: A Book? - by Darwinian - May 12, 2009 at 9:02 am
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 12, 2009 at 5:17 pm
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 12, 2009 at 9:51 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 12, 2009 at 10:13 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 12, 2009 at 10:28 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 12, 2009 at 10:52 am
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 12, 2009 at 10:54 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 12, 2009 at 11:00 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 12, 2009 at 11:08 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 12, 2009 at 11:25 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 12, 2009 at 11:42 am
RE: A Book? - by Tiberius - May 12, 2009 at 11:52 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 12, 2009 at 12:10 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2009 at 5:22 pm
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 13, 2009 at 9:04 am
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 13, 2009 at 10:15 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 13, 2009 at 10:59 am
RE: A Book? - by Tiberius - May 13, 2009 at 11:10 am
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2009 at 5:32 pm
RE: A Book? - by Tiberius - May 17, 2009 at 8:50 am
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 17, 2009 at 2:05 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 13, 2009 at 12:28 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 14, 2009 at 12:10 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 14, 2009 at 1:35 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 15, 2009 at 10:45 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 15, 2009 at 10:46 am
RE: A Book? - by leo-rcc - May 15, 2009 at 10:48 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 15, 2009 at 1:06 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 15, 2009 at 2:10 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 15, 2009 at 3:27 pm
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 15, 2009 at 3:38 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 15, 2009 at 3:56 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 15, 2009 at 4:00 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 15, 2009 at 4:04 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 15, 2009 at 7:16 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 16, 2009 at 3:03 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 16, 2009 at 4:26 pm
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 16, 2009 at 8:52 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 16, 2009 at 10:27 am
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 17, 2009 at 5:57 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 17, 2009 at 8:47 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 17, 2009 at 9:04 am
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 18, 2009 at 5:42 am
RE: A Book? - by Tiberius - May 18, 2009 at 6:49 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 18, 2009 at 7:34 am
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 18, 2009 at 7:53 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 18, 2009 at 8:31 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 18, 2009 at 10:17 am
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 18, 2009 at 3:37 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 18, 2009 at 10:46 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 18, 2009 at 4:30 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 18, 2009 at 4:30 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 18, 2009 at 11:08 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 19, 2009 at 3:35 am
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 19, 2009 at 5:51 am
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 19, 2009 at 1:54 pm
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 19, 2009 at 2:40 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 19, 2009 at 2:49 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 19, 2009 at 3:03 pm
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 19, 2009 at 3:39 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 19, 2009 at 4:01 pm
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 19, 2009 at 4:04 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 19, 2009 at 4:41 pm
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 19, 2009 at 1:46 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 19, 2009 at 2:24 pm
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 19, 2009 at 5:57 am
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 19, 2009 at 6:33 am
RE: A Book? - by Giff - May 19, 2009 at 7:49 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 19, 2009 at 10:51 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 19, 2009 at 11:26 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 19, 2009 at 11:46 am
RE: A Book? - by chatpilot - May 19, 2009 at 11:55 am
RE: A Book? - by Darwinian - May 19, 2009 at 2:54 pm
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 19, 2009 at 4:48 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 19, 2009 at 5:15 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 19, 2009 at 6:16 pm
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 20, 2009 at 11:00 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 20, 2009 at 11:17 am
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 20, 2009 at 12:00 pm
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 20, 2009 at 1:07 pm
RE: A Book? - by Darwinian - May 20, 2009 at 1:09 pm
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 20, 2009 at 1:13 pm
RE: A Book? - by Darwinian - May 20, 2009 at 1:23 pm
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 20, 2009 at 1:28 pm
RE: A Book? - by Darwinian - May 20, 2009 at 1:33 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 20, 2009 at 4:32 pm
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 20, 2009 at 4:41 pm
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 20, 2009 at 4:59 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 20, 2009 at 6:26 pm
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 20, 2009 at 8:50 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 20, 2009 at 7:14 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 21, 2009 at 2:53 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 21, 2009 at 7:42 pm
RE: A Book? - by lilphil1989 - May 22, 2009 at 6:05 am
RE: A Book? - by g-mark - May 20, 2009 at 1:38 pm
RE: A Book? - by Kyuuketsuki - May 21, 2009 at 3:30 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 21, 2009 at 8:02 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 21, 2009 at 8:09 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 21, 2009 at 8:15 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 21, 2009 at 8:17 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 21, 2009 at 8:18 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 21, 2009 at 8:22 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 21, 2009 at 8:26 pm
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 21, 2009 at 8:43 pm
RE: A Book? - by fr0d0 - May 22, 2009 at 3:34 am
RE: A Book? - by Edwardo Piet - May 22, 2009 at 10:37 am
RE: A Book? - by dry land fish - August 12, 2009 at 9:32 pm

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