RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 20, 2018 at 1:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2018 at 1:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 20, 2018 at 12:46 pm)SteveII Wrote:Oh?(September 18, 2018 at 3:56 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: How can god possess libertarian free will if he is bound by his nature? If god isn’t free to consider what is or isn’t just and then act accordingly, then he isn’t actually free.
Libertarian Free Will just means your choices are not causally determined by something outside yourself. Having a nature/characteristic that governs your actions/thoughts does not in any way impinge on free will. Every conceivable conscious being has such influences/limits.
Quote:Libertarian free will means that our choices are free from the determination or constraints of human nature and free from any predetermination by Godhttps://www.theopedia.com/libertarian-free-will
If our "free will" is governed by our nature, internally..then how is this different to the free will of a clock?
What you're looking for is a compatibilist free will, not a libertarian one. The moment you start talking about things that bind us and govern us (or gods) you are describing causal determinism.
Quote:Compatibilism offers a solution to the free will problem, which concerns a disputed incompatibility between free will and determinism. Compatibilism is the thesis that free will is compatible with determinism. Because free will is typically taken to be a necessary condition of moral responsibility, compatibilism is sometimes expressed as a thesis about the compatibility between moral responsibility and determinism.https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/
This is anecdotal, but in my experience, christians refer to libertarian free will as a justification for gods general bitchiness towards us (because that's what they were told)...but in describing how that will operates they abandon that concept and start talking compatibilism (because that's what they believe). Theologies that reject the notion of libertarian free will in favor of human depravity have stronger scriptural support but simultaneously rub up against a modern sense of fairness or justice. It's a tough spot to be in..but them's the breaks when it comes to fairies and their scoring system.
A compatibilist free will makes allowances for our nature..and believers contend that this nature is gods creation. Created sick, commanded to be well.
Additionally, I'm wondering what slate is supposed to have been wiped clean? I'm not aware of anyone being unmurdered..for example. If by this you simply mean that god gives passes when he pleases....well, that's not wiping anything clean, it's just ignoring moral responsibility for people who fluff the divine peener. YMMV, but to me, rewarding sycophancy doesn't strike me as moral or just or perfect. It's a common human flaw. More a sign of the times and the value of fealty than something "holy".
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