RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
September 28, 2018 at 4:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2018 at 4:32 pm by SteveII.)
(September 28, 2018 at 1:57 pm)SaStrike Wrote:(September 28, 2018 at 11:32 am)SteveII Wrote: Nope. I am a Molinist (God's middle knowledge lets him see what people will freely choose to do). Free will lives on.
You are asserting that God caused the cancer. It might be that you simply chose to smoke or go to the beach. So, I don't accept that God caused any cancer. Actually that's not a belief that Christians generally hold (if at all)--so it is a straw man argument.
What you say here is contradictory to your option 4.
How can a person choose to get cancer, when god already knew what would happen before creation?
Since god does the creation, and during creation knew what will happen (because he programmed the human to, or willed it to be that way or whatever theists come up with). How can it be any one else fault but god?
No one chooses to get cancer. Our choice can lead to it. Our environment can lead to it (other people's choices). Our bad genes passed on from our parents can lead to it (more other people's choices).
God's knowledge of what we will freely choose does not limit our ability to choose it.
(September 28, 2018 at 2:39 pm)RobbyPants Wrote:(September 28, 2018 at 11:32 am)SteveII Wrote: You are asserting that God caused the cancer. It might be that you simply chose to smoke or go to the beach. So, I don't accept that God caused any cancer. Actually that's not a belief that Christians generally hold (if at all)--so it is a straw man argument.
While I did say "cause" in that post, I said "cause or allow" in the OP, because it doesn't really matter in the context of the discussion. The point is: if intercessory prayer could work, God has to have agency to fix the problem.
If he has that agency, your option #4 could be summed up as "God causes/allows problem because it benefits you to ask him to fix it". If he doesn't have agency, why call him God?
Your phrase "God causes/allows problem because it benefits you to ask him to fix it" is way to simplistic. Also, that line of thinking would not work on most of the world who do not ask him anything when they have problems. It would seem that it is more likely that there are problems in the world because of nature, evil choices of people, willful disregard of consequences, unintended consequences of choices, and bad luck. You can trace every problem all the way back to the beginning of the universe if you had enough information.
