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If theists understood "evidence"
#80
RE: If theists understood "evidence"
(October 9, 2018 at 7:11 am)Jehanne Wrote:


Do the majority of scholars support your view?  I never see this as a major argument articulated by scholars.

It seems to me, that during this time period, the Romans and the Jews had a complicated on again - off again relationship.   I also think that it is incorrect to compare modern practices to those of 1st century Rome (anachronistic fallacy).  During the time of Jesus (and Paul) they where trying to get along with the Jews,  shortly after, was the Jewish war.  There was a tension and power struggle between the two.   I don't think that the Romans had any problem with killing people, but the question is, would they have allowed the Jewish authorities to do so.  I'm certainly not any kind of authority or expert in this area, but given my knowledge of their relationship and the behavior of the Romans I think that the answer is it's complicated. It fluctuated and what they allowed or didn't allow depended on that complicated relationship which could change rapidly.

Here are some citations from a shortly before the time of Paul, showing that the Romans did grant authority to the Jewish leaders over their people
Quote:
  • Extradition from Egypt was granted for Simon the high priest by Ptolemy VII in 142 B.C. (1 Macc. 15:15-21)
  • Julius Caesar formally acknowledged the sovereignty of the high priest in all matters of Jewish religion in a decree of 47 B.C. (Josephus, Ant. 14. 192-195)
http://religiopoliticaltalk.com/did-paul-have-the-authority-to-arrest-people-in-damascus/

I think it could depend on who and to what extent. That it largely depended on how much it effected the Romans.     I can agree, that Christians may at times overstate or over-extrapolate the persecution to be larger and more extreme than it was.  This is often the case (just look at min's threads on cops). However it seems that atheists at times want to understate it, or remove it from history all together. I don't think that your theory fits. Perhaps people incorrectly extrapolate it to a wider epidemic than what it was, but those who Paul was supposedly lying to, knew better than you or I, what the current conditions where, and what was or wasn't allowed. If it was as outlandish a thought as you suggest (comparing it to modern times) then I find that implausible. There has to at least be some truth to it. Also, I don't think that claiming to kill, people is a very plausible way to become their friend (in any time), especially if there is no persecution at all, to base this on. I don't see that history agree's with your thoughts here, and think you need to back it up with something more concrete.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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Messages In This Thread
If theists understood "evidence" - by Paraselene - October 8, 2018 at 6:59 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 7:00 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Paraselene - October 8, 2018 at 7:03 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 7:08 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Paraselene - October 8, 2018 at 7:11 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 7:13 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Paraselene - October 8, 2018 at 7:15 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 7:18 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Paraselene - October 8, 2018 at 7:21 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 7:25 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Paraselene - October 8, 2018 at 7:26 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 8, 2018 at 10:50 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 10:57 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 11:27 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 11:41 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 12:40 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 12:43 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 1:07 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 1:10 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 1:25 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 2:01 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 2:38 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 2:45 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 3:20 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 3:24 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Angrboda - October 8, 2018 at 5:22 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 8, 2018 at 2:43 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 8, 2018 at 1:47 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 10:59 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Gwaithmir - October 8, 2018 at 7:10 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Alan V - October 8, 2018 at 7:52 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Mister Agenda - October 9, 2018 at 10:43 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by OakTree500 - October 9, 2018 at 12:04 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 7:38 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 8:11 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 10:54 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 11:12 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 11:57 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 12:05 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 12:13 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 12:14 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Ravenshire - October 8, 2018 at 2:08 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Fidel_Castronaut - October 8, 2018 at 1:41 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 2:12 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Fidel_Castronaut - October 8, 2018 at 2:17 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 2:20 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 8:39 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by purplepurpose - October 8, 2018 at 8:48 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 9:06 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 9:10 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 9:13 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 9:17 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 9:18 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 9:25 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 9:31 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 9:39 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 9:41 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by onlinebiker - October 8, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by LadyForCamus - October 8, 2018 at 1:42 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Fidel_Castronaut - October 8, 2018 at 2:27 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 2:36 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 8, 2018 at 2:53 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 3:02 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 9, 2018 at 1:49 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 9, 2018 at 2:18 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 3:27 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 3:37 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 8, 2018 at 3:52 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 7:03 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Angrboda - October 8, 2018 at 7:41 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 7:52 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 8, 2018 at 10:14 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Angrboda - October 10, 2018 at 5:18 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 5:36 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 9, 2018 at 7:11 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 9, 2018 at 7:28 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 9, 2018 at 9:19 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Aliza - October 8, 2018 at 4:54 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 6:36 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 8:56 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 8, 2018 at 9:25 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 9:26 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by MysticKnight - October 8, 2018 at 9:23 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 11:03 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 9, 2018 at 8:23 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 9, 2018 at 8:29 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 9, 2018 at 9:34 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 9, 2018 at 9:58 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 9, 2018 at 10:29 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 9, 2018 at 6:47 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 10, 2018 at 4:19 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 4:40 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Jehanne - October 10, 2018 at 6:32 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Drich - October 9, 2018 at 1:41 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 9, 2018 at 1:45 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 9, 2018 at 2:48 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 9, 2018 at 2:57 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by purplepurpose - October 9, 2018 at 3:03 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 9, 2018 at 6:49 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 9, 2018 at 8:46 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 9, 2018 at 8:53 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Amarok - October 9, 2018 at 9:07 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Minimalist - October 9, 2018 at 9:46 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 9, 2018 at 11:10 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by robvalue - October 10, 2018 at 2:20 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 6:11 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 6:28 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 6:29 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 7:03 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 7:18 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 7:34 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Grandizer - October 10, 2018 at 7:38 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 7:49 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 7:49 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 8:01 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 8:14 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 8:29 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 8:43 am
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 4:26 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 4:50 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Crossless2.0 - October 10, 2018 at 4:59 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 4:59 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Deesse23 - October 10, 2018 at 5:07 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 5:39 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by Deesse23 - October 10, 2018 at 6:19 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 6:44 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 5:14 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 5:39 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 5:44 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by no one - October 10, 2018 at 6:37 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 6:38 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 6:54 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 8:23 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 10:45 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by RoadRunner79 - October 10, 2018 at 10:48 pm
RE: If theists understood "evidence" - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2018 at 10:50 pm

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