(September 27, 2018 at 5:29 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: This was an old thread I made at TTA, and was reminded of by another here. I figured I'd post this separately.
Christians frequently engage in intercessory prayer. When I went to church, it was a weekly thing, and people going through any amount of trouble talk about it all the time. This is all based on Christian's own ideas that God is effectively "able and willing" to fix a problem that he caused/allowed, and also that he has a will, and his will will "be done".
The sad thing is, regardless of if you're talking about a sickness, natural disaster, or some other "act of God" type of problem, the outcome is always the same. There are three ways and only three ways this can play out. For this discussion, we won't worry about why God caused or allowed the problem. That will be chalked up to [mysterious ways]. Starting from that point, one of three things will happen:And that's it. There's no magical fourth option that both has prayer working and God not being a massive twat. I knew a guy like that in college. He'd cause problems just so he could fix him, and everyone hated that guy. We didn't sing his praises; we cut all ties with him.
- God caused/allowed the problem for some reason, and he plans on fixing it. Perhaps this was to strengthen people, or whatever. The reason is moot. He caused/allowed it, and he's fixing it, anyway. Prayer does nothing in this case.
- God caused/allowed the problem for some reason, and he is not fixing it. Again, the reason doesn't matter. Maybe it's just that person's time. Regardless, prayer does nothing in this case.
- God caused/allowed the problem and will make it persist unless people pray to fix it. Then, and only then, does God fix the problem. So, the good news is prayer works in this case. The bad news is, the problem only exists in the first place so God can coax people into asking him to fix it. What the shit?
Prayer as Jesus out lines:
1 Acknowledgement, recognition and respect given to God
"our Father who is in Heaven holy is your name
2 Asking for the end of man's reign/Asking for the basically the book of revelation to be full filled,
Your kingdom come your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
3 you ask for your daily needs
give us this day our daily bread
4You ask God to make your salvation contingent on your own ability to forgive others.
Forgive my sin as or in the same way I forgive others
5 Keep me from sin
lead me not to temptation
6 closing with
yours king glory and power amen.
Where in there do you see intercession? where in there aside from our daily need do you see a asking cermony/meaning where in Jesus' own example of pray is he saying it is ok to ask God for the crap you want in your life to make it easier? He doesn't.
Why?
Prayer is not about changing God's mind. Prayer is about need and changing your mind and heart to fit God. Look at thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. look at my translation. is there any part of you that does not want to see the worst parts of the book of revelation played out n your front yard? of course! but that is what prayer is. it is about changing your will to meet or at least seek God's will not the other way around!
Prayer is also a daily reminder that our sins hang on our own ability to forgive those who sin against us. meaning if we can not forgive, none can be forgiven.
That in a nut shell is the ONLY Example of NT prayer and what's more is was demonstrated by Christ Himself in Luke 11.
So intercessory 'prayer' is not prayer at all. We take an example of intercessory petitioning from Christ as well when he prayed for the centurion's little girl to be made well as they stood several days away. This is the difference between petition and prayer. petition is what you want from God prayer is what God wants from you. until we learn to pray very little petitions are ever answered.
There comes a point however when you know how to pray that you seek out prayer/God's will over your own petitions because you know in the end it will work out better than if you shortsightedly ask for something. I almost never ask or petition God for anything because he will give me exactly what I want, which may sound like a deal but in the end I will often see if I had stayed the course much better things would have come my way. or I get this thing and it was not what I really wanted.
If God is not answering your petitions learn to pray first.
