Intercessory prayer is pointless

[Drich]

I'm pointing out there is only one model of prayer. Jesus Christ himself presented it. He was directly asked "Lord, teach us how to pray." and what he came up with is what I outlined from luke 11. In essence the 'Lord's prayer' is the only outline of actual prayer. Now we also have examples of paul teaching his people to Go before God asking for their wants and needs but he identifies this not as prayer but as petition.

The computer scientist in me says that based on what you've provided, you cannot claim that this is the only model for prayer. The disciples asked for a model for how to pray and Jesus gave them one, without offering any other information as to whether or not it is the only way to pray. You could ask me how to hang and mud drywall, and I could pretty easily show you. It doesn't mean that the way I showed you is the only way to do so.

it would be IF you were the man who had the power to set the standard for mudding dry wall. That's the thing here you are not taking into account. Not only did Jesus not only show any other way of praying he modeled his prayer in the garden of gethsemane before his trial after what he has shown so now he is in a tight spot, he wants to be set free of the burden of the coming cross, but in the end follows the pattern and repeat that the Father's will be done here not his own!

That said this sentiment is repeated throughout the NT first again by Christ when he speaks to the sermon of the mount he says anything you ask in prayer in my name.. citing that the simple faith of a mustard seed would could yield mountains be cast into the sea! but again the prayer had to be in his name.. Not just say: in the name of Christ I proclaim... but to ask in the name of some one is to ask for anything they themselves would as for and nothing more. So what would Jesus Ask? WWJA? point yourself back to the Lords prayer...

Not only that we have NT examples of Prayer and petition being divided.
phil 4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

paul makes a clear line between petition and prayer in that we are required to do both. if they were the same then the same greek work would have been used, but for prayer we have προσευχή proseuchē which means formal prayer (often refered to as the prayer Christ taught) and for petition/supplication we have the koine word δέησις deēsis which is seeking asking wanting supplication/wants apart from need.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/phl/...nc_1107006

prayer and supplication have been divided for a long long time and it is not till recent times did the two loose their individual meanings. However the bible does not forget and remains true to the idea that prayer and petition are not the same things despite what computer logic might have to say.

[/pedantic side-note on set theory]

That said you would be shocked at how much the church does or does not do that the bible teaches the opposite on.

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So how can the church be wrong and still be the church? because the same grace that is extended to us when we willfully sin is that more more available when we love God with all of our being and we simply fall short with our limited ability to comprehend an infinite God.. Maning if God is willing to forgive when we seek to be wrong/evil then his grace is far better spent when we get somthing wrong/misunderstand how God works when we are trying to love God with the full extent of our ablity!

This is just a whole bunch of No True Scotsman stuff that I'm sure you believe, but there's no way you can prove. I mean, maybe you're right, but you can't prove it with an informal logical fallacy.

That's not true. You guys default to no true scotsman so quickly you do not understand the meaning anymore. With no true scotsman in order for the identification of its logical fallacy to be valid there can not exist rules on the nature of a true scotsman. EG not true scotsman like porridge.. There is no rule that says a 'true scotsman must ot like porridge. however if there is a clear set of rules defining what is and what is not a scotsman, then the fallacy does not apply if said 'man' breaks the rules.

Here in order to be forgiven by Christ found in the bible you must follow the Doctrine set by Christ and his followers found in the bible. that is how a church is defined "if two or more Gather in my Name I will be there also." So if two men try and worship God yet their efforts might only amount to a hill of beans when compared to some lifer at some mega church, those beans flaws and all are just as valid before God than a life spent in a mega church. (parable of the workers underlines this point)

Every Christian seems to think they're at least on the right track to doing Christianity "correctly", and they all base if off of their own particular interpretations of the Bible. Every time I've seen a Christian honest enough to admit that they can't really know if they're correct, they go right back to asserting they're correct when that conversation ends and the next one starts.

Here's the thing.. I'm right 100% right in saying we are all wrong AND I am 100% right in saying the same grace extended to us when we willfully sin is that much more available when we are in the mist of loving God with all of our ability and simply get it wrong. Meaning we do not have to be right because after the cross it does not matter any more. we do not live according to the law if we are in christ. we live by grace.

what does that mean? it means if God wanted to abolish Judaism and set up another morality based system of after life worthiness we would have several NT books of do's and don'ts. we would have several books of law. Rather when ask Christ said all of the law comes down to 2 points. Love God with all of your being love your neighbor as yourself. meaning if you want to be forgiven of your sins you must forgive EVERYONE of theirs/those whom have sinned against you. In those two laws all of the law is full filled/remains.

So in doing so if I love God praise and worship sing songs but don't understand how the holy spirit works or if I think God is too important for me to pray to him directly so I pray to some angel or dead church fellow.. or If I think God doesn't want me to marry someone if I preach to people of if I think God does not like drinking or I preach that he does... If I am fully convicted and my intellect bounds me to these laws or ideas then God will forgive me all the more so because I am by my foolish faith doing all that I know to do to praise and worship God. He asks for nothing more

God could give two S-es about the pomp and ceremony of all the crap we do, but values the heart felt efforts of those who do so in an attempt to try and come closer.

It's no different than you kid telling you he woves you.. you wouldn't be like "what the hell does 'wove' mean you little pos! Say the Word right or I will beat you!" No you see the effort, you see and know his limitations, you know he is doing everything he can to provide you with as much as he is able to give and more importantly the sentiment behind the effort.

This is also true for those in the church who uses it's rules and sentiment for personal gain and to crush the faith of others. God is no fool and will not be loopholed into creating passes for people who would try and use the law to their benefit! for this grace to be had you must be in the loop of atonement and forgiveness.

Keeping prayer separate from petition only help you to understand/ unlock how to become closer to God.

You wonder why God has NEVER answered a prayer?

Probably because you have never prayed to him... Jst an endless series of wishing ceremonies. petitions...

Gotta have both. you want x got to be willing to change Y