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On the subject of Hell and Salvation
#53
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation
(February 8, 2019 at 11:30 am)tackattack Wrote: If you would like to look at the New testament as a whole.

I'm not going to assume that there is a universal Gospel message that is consistently preached throughout the whole NT, when it's clear the books of the Bible are not consistent with one another theologically.

Quote:I'll be more specific with my highlights to express the inclucivist view I was talking about and if you still feel it is more exclucivist, please point out how.
"Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin"
"no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law"
"Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law ... show the work of the Law written in their hearts"

Exactly. No one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law. This would include people who never got to hear the Gospel.

Quote:John 14:6 is a notoriously difficult verse for believers where Jesus says, "no one can come to the Father except through me”. A lot of exlucisivists assume this to mean "through faith in me". A lot of inclucivists claim no Faith is necessary because it is "through my saving work". To be clear on this definition I practice restrictivism (exclusivism) meaning that a positive response to general revelation is not enough to accept the gift of salvation from Christ in that one needs a conscious decision to acknowledge/accept Christ as your savior. However, Christ's sacrifice is powered by itself, and not our actions, so those unable to know or decide (mentally handicapped, babies, unreached aboriginals, etc.) do not have "the Law" and show the work written on their hearts.

How about letting "John" himself do the interpreting? Wink

John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Now for your last statement:

Quote:So to sum up quickly because this is far longer than I wanted.
You need to hear>accept Christ as your savior, or turn against your natural sinful nature instinctively (without knowing of Christ) to become saved.

Emphasis mine. Again, problem is that according to Paul that would be impossible.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Alternatehistory95 - January 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nakara - January 17, 2019 at 12:51 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 12:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by no one - January 17, 2019 at 12:56 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Duty - January 17, 2019 at 1:07 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by donlor - January 22, 2019 at 8:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 1:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 2:12 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 17, 2019 at 3:01 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by zebo-the-fat - January 17, 2019 at 4:09 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - January 17, 2019 at 5:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 18, 2019 at 1:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nakara - January 18, 2019 at 7:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 19, 2019 at 2:36 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - January 19, 2019 at 6:40 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Duty - January 18, 2019 at 7:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - January 18, 2019 at 8:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - January 18, 2019 at 3:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 21, 2019 at 2:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:39 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:44 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 5:00 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 10:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 2:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 4:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 4:53 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cecelia - January 17, 2019 at 5:28 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 17, 2019 at 5:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by AFTT47 - January 18, 2019 at 5:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by no one - January 19, 2019 at 5:00 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 21, 2019 at 2:17 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 21, 2019 at 2:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:05 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 22, 2019 at 2:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - January 21, 2019 at 12:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 21, 2019 at 6:16 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 22, 2019 at 2:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - January 22, 2019 at 10:26 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - January 22, 2019 at 5:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - February 8, 2019 at 11:30 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 8, 2019 at 1:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - January 22, 2019 at 11:49 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - January 22, 2019 at 3:32 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - January 24, 2019 at 3:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 8, 2019 at 6:12 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 9, 2019 at 1:58 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 9, 2019 at 2:24 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 13, 2019 at 3:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 13, 2019 at 4:06 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 14, 2019 at 2:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 14, 2019 at 5:25 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 15, 2019 at 1:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 15, 2019 at 2:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 16, 2019 at 3:19 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 16, 2019 at 9:45 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 18, 2019 at 2:51 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 18, 2019 at 4:22 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 19, 2019 at 3:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 19, 2019 at 5:56 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 19, 2019 at 7:33 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by downbeatplumb - February 19, 2019 at 2:14 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Godscreated - February 20, 2019 at 2:32 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 20, 2019 at 8:29 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Fake Messiah - February 8, 2019 at 12:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 8, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 8, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - February 14, 2019 at 12:22 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 14, 2019 at 12:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 1:06 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 15, 2019 at 4:31 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 4:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by FatAndFaithless - February 15, 2019 at 4:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 5:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 15, 2019 at 7:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 15, 2019 at 8:15 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 15, 2019 at 8:36 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 15, 2019 at 11:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 15, 2019 at 11:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 9:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 16, 2019 at 9:39 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 1:21 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 16, 2019 at 1:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 16, 2019 at 2:24 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 3:02 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 11:18 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 11:46 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 12:36 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 6:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 7:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 7:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 7:37 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 7:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 8:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 16, 2019 at 8:07 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 7:59 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 8:09 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 2:47 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 8:39 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 16, 2019 at 9:47 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 16, 2019 at 11:30 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 17, 2019 at 12:38 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 16, 2019 at 11:23 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 11:54 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 1:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 6:43 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 17, 2019 at 7:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 8:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 7:25 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 8:00 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 8:35 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 9:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 10:58 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 17, 2019 at 11:04 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 12:01 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 12:48 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 5:55 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 7:03 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 10:24 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 5:54 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 18, 2019 at 10:37 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 19, 2019 at 1:37 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 19, 2019 at 3:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 19, 2019 at 4:05 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 18, 2019 at 6:42 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 20, 2019 at 1:59 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 8:21 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 9:50 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 10:02 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 21, 2019 at 11:20 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 22, 2019 at 3:16 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 22, 2019 at 9:55 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 17, 2019 at 7:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 17, 2019 at 1:55 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 17, 2019 at 8:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 17, 2019 at 8:44 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 17, 2019 at 9:03 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 17, 2019 at 10:13 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 12:57 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 18, 2019 at 6:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Belacqua - February 18, 2019 at 7:06 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 19, 2019 at 9:11 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 20, 2019 at 4:58 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 20, 2019 at 8:42 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 20, 2019 at 12:33 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 9:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 9:44 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:10 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - February 21, 2019 at 10:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:27 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:35 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:34 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 10:43 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 10:59 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - February 21, 2019 at 11:10 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 11:40 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 1:19 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 1:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 1:42 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 3:57 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 21, 2019 at 4:54 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 21, 2019 at 5:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 1:13 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 23, 2019 at 1:54 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 2:28 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 23, 2019 at 10:18 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 23, 2019 at 10:48 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 23, 2019 at 2:21 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Astreja - February 24, 2019 at 3:31 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 5:22 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:49 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - March 2, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by possibletarian - February 24, 2019 at 4:41 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 5:48 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Angrboda - February 24, 2019 at 9:35 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 24, 2019 at 6:31 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 24, 2019 at 6:23 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by MilesAbbott81 - February 24, 2019 at 6:10 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 24, 2019 at 10:27 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:25 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:28 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 9:01 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 6:17 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Cod - March 4, 2019 at 7:57 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 4, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 6, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 2:26 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 1:16 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 4, 2019 at 2:04 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 3:22 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Angrboda - March 9, 2019 at 11:38 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by fredd bear - March 6, 2019 at 11:50 pm
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Deesse23 - March 10, 2019 at 4:45 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Grandizer - March 10, 2019 at 8:26 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - March 10, 2019 at 6:25 am
RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation - by tackattack - March 9, 2019 at 10:23 pm

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