On the subject of Hell and Salvation

[possibletarian]

Call it common sense then. If you're going to say "who declares it common sense," well, I'd say "most people."

So people, not god decide what is logical would you agree ?

Because things don't simply exist without a source. To argue otherwise would be insane.

And yet you happily give your man created god an opt out on that.
So i ask again, how do you know the universe came from nothing ?

I mean according to natural laws, obviously I know they are possible through God. Are you being deliberately difficult?

No it's a serious question you are being asked, try answering from evidence and proof instead of ''I believe it to be so, so it must be so'' I realise you don't think you are doing this, but in fact you are. And who's to say what laws preceded our universe do you know what they were ?

If in fact you don't know, then simply say you don't, don't create gods to fill your gaps.

I'm not here to go tit for tat with you about specifics. If you choose to believe things that make no sense, that's your choice.

No sense if you choose to hide your head in the sand you mean, and wave away science as of the devil.

According to your standards, which don't matter. Only God's standards matter, and He has declared His creation to you very plainly, so that even the simple can deduce it. Something cannot come from nothing, and that's really all you need to know. If you need more than that, well, you're either an idiot or God has blinded you. There is no other option.

How have you determined what god's standards are ?

You deny His existence when you demand something He has already given you. You're saying "this isn't enough." It's enough. The problem isn't His, it's yours. You've created it.

Not at all, I know you have to believe this to justify your belief I simply do not believe there is proof for a god, perhaps you could show some ?

Well, a big one for me is universal salvation. People can't reconcile the existence of evil because they don't understand its purpose,

I can reconcile it very easily, I really don''t have a problem. It perfectly explained under evolution, the only reason you give harmful things people do a purpose and a spiritual meaning is because of you beliefs.

and its purpose can only be understood in light of the truth of universal salvation. Otherwise God is painted as unimaginably cruel, which just isn't true. I don't know of any religion that explains the purpose of evil adequately; only Christianity does.

Christianity explains nothing, it more easily explained via evolution, evil as such has no purpose or special meaning to me, other than it's a word used to mean harmful behaviour. I don't blame god for not stopping evil any more than than i blame superman for not stopping the 9/11 attacks. i simply do not believe there is a reason to believe either exists.

The truth can be measured when no argument is able to defeat it,

Do you really believe that to be true ? if so we could have a discussion on that alone.

and when it can be applied to history and everyday life. That doesn't mean you personally will be able to measure it, but others will.

Well if it's down to interpretation, then simply admit that call it personal truth or my truth.

Truly, if you can't even recognize the Truth when it becomes manifest, which I'm not even sure is possible, then you likely have no hope for salvation in this life.

I would probably have to be convinced there was a god to grant any type of salvation first.

The better question is, how can you call it gobbledygook if you've never heard the Truth? You probably haven't. Just because you hear the Truth doesn't mean you'll accept it.

What does accepting it mean, other than believing it because you believe it, what difference is there ?

Jesus Christ spoke the Truth and people hated Him for it, and eventually killed Him for it. The Truth is not a pleasant thing to hear, which is partly why it's so easy to recognize.

Where did you get that story from, the bible ?

I would probably measure the Truth by the fact that I ran from it as fast as I could when I first heard it. But I was brought back, because we don't choose the day of our salvation; the Lord decides when and how you get saved.

I wouldn't run from it, i just require a good reason to believe it's truth, maybe if you had done the same you wouldn't have ran from it.

Again, it IS a matter of faith. To clarify once again, we're no longer speaking of proving God's existence, but about my particular brand of faith. By the very definition it's a matter of faith.

So you can have faith in god, without having a good reason to believe there is a god ? How are you separating the two ?

See above answer. On the grounds of doctrine and common sense, mine is the only faith that can't be contradicted, as long as you want to concede that God does in fact exist for the sake of the argument(s).

Well that's what we are trying to establish, for instance if we accept that superman exists (for the sake of argument) then my anger at his none intervention on 9/11 may be justified. But who rationally would accept such an argument as a truth which some have been blinded to without first proving superman exists.

Well, we know because the Spirit of God reveals it to us, primarily. But one can also tell when one speaks by His Spirit, because it won't be contradicted by other Scriptures. Paul's epistles can't be contradicted.

Why do you believe them to be true was question, not IF you believe them to be true, we already know that. if there is no god, they are simply wholly wrong.

The world exists as it does today precisely because there hasn't been much grace given to men at present. And this is all perfectly okay and part of God's design...fortunately, things will be changing very soon.

Or because there is no god, and people just do bad stuff. No need to pollute the waters with various unprovable gods and faiths.

It's not gobbledygook, you're just repeating yourself again. The question isn't even necessarily "why would you repent to a god"; how about starting with "why would you not repent"?

People do feel sorry for what they have done, i see it every day, why i even do it myself.

Take God out of the equation, unless you happen to view yourself as morally bankrupt and don't care that that is the case. So answer that question for me, please.

I happen to view myself as human, who occasionally does things i wish i hadn't, what makes you think people don't care ?

All you seen to be able to say through these whole threads is essentially ''unless you believe what i believe then you are wrong'' you provide no reasons aside from you faith, which we have already established is no way to determine truth.
Please please tell me you have something more interesting than telling everyone how wrong they are, because you believe they are. If you choose to claim some insights from god, then justify that claim, really simple.

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How do we determine that to be true ?


And how did you come to that conclusion ?  Other than he does not believe what you believe.
The universe from nothing argument aside. How do you know it came from nothing ?

Who says you have to determine it to be true? God doesn't save everyone in this life. Maybe you weren't meant to understand. Doesn't make it okay, but it is an answer. But to answer the question, you determine it to be true by the grace of God, and that alone. You can't receive one thing in this world unless it comes from Him.

As for Krauss, I never said I knew the particles came from nothing (if I'm understanding your language correctly). I don't know where they came from, either. But Krauss can't definitively say they came from nothing because he has no idea where they came from. He is assuming they came from nothing. They came from something alright, he just doesn't know what.

Most is a repeat, but i bolded the interesting bits.

1) well if it isn't true, then it isn't true. why would anyone NOT want to know it's true ?
2) The point is neither do you, Could they have already existed in some form ?