On the subject of Hell and Salvation

[MilesAbbott81]

So people, not god decide what is logical would you agree ?

No. I'd say that God gives people common sense. Everything about us is determined by God, including our ability to make sense of things.

And yet you happily give your man created god an opt out on that.
So i ask again, how do you know the universe came from nothing ?  

For one, He is not man-created, but I understand you're just being deliberately condescending. Naturally, the Creator of physics isn't subject to its laws. That's not exactly a difficult thing to comprehend.

No it's a serious question you are being asked, try answering from evidence and proof  instead of ''I believe it to be so, so it must be so'' I realise you don't think you are doing this, but in fact you are. And who's to say what laws preceded our universe do you know what they were ?

Who says there were any laws preceding our universe? What evidence do you have to suggest there were? And I tell you, if something cannot come from nothing, according to natural laws, then the source of existence must be supernatural. It still baffles me how this is such a difficult concept to grasp. And you'll cry "the burden of proof is on you!" No, it isn't. The burden of proof is on God, and He has provided it in many, many ways. Just because it isn't good enough for you doesn't mean it isn't good enough. You are not the arbiter of the standards of proof. He is, and He is very, very reasonable.

If in fact you don't know, then simply say you don't, don't create gods to fill your gaps.

I've spent plenty of time on forums getting into the nitty-gritty about things like DNA and the Higgs-Boson stuff. And one thing I'll say is that it never goes anywhere, and the people who cite these scientists as credible have a tenuous grasp on the subject matter themselves and are simply appealing to authority, which is a cheap tactic and very stupid.

Men lie about everything, including science. Take "Climategate" for instance. There have also been many hoaxes about evolution. Men are not infallible and certainly shouldn't be trusted, but people like you would much prefer to put your faith in men than God. You are receiving the due penalty for your error.

No sense if you choose to hide your head in the sand you mean, and wave away science as of the devil.

I don't wave away science as of the devil, but nice try. Science has its uses. My problem with science is that it has filled men with hubris.
People respect scientists for some reason, even though they're probably responsible for just as much death as any religion. We have virtually no understanding of things like biology, yet we think it's okay to genetically modify our food. Cancer kills millions when it's easily curable (if caught early enough) without radiation or chemotherapy, treatments which actually CAUSE cancer. The speed of light changed several times in the 20th century, along with the supposed age of the universe. Astronomy is just as big a mystery to us as anything else, yet you and others cry that you have the answers, or that your stupid and ineffective methods of determining the truth of a matter are the only valid ones. You say to hell with God because your opinion of yourself is so high that you think you don't need Him.  

How have you determined what god's standards are ?  

By the grace of God, but it's also in the Bible.

Christianity explains nothing,  it more easily explained via evolution, evil as such has no purpose or special meaning to me, other than it's a word used to mean harmful behaviour.  I don't blame god for not stopping evil any more than than i blame superman  for not stopping the 9/11 attacks. i simply do not believe there is a reason to believe either exists.

Well if you're fine with your own explanation about the purpose/nature of evil, then I won't try to change your mind.

Do you really believe that to be true ? if so we could have a discussion on that alone.

I certainly do believe it to be true. Of course, the one who is wrong won't be able to see the difference, just as you can't see the sense in what I'm saying. And that's partly why faith is required. The world will scream at you that you're wrong when you speak the Truth, because the world hates the Truth. It only matters for the one who can see it. I realize that's not a satisfactory answer to you, but if so then it was never supposed to be satisfactory to you.

Well if it's down to interpretation, then simply admit that call it personal truth or my truth.

No. The idea of subjective reality is a big problem in the world today. Moral relativism is destroying everything. To call it "my truth" would be like saying water doesn't exist. It just isn't true.

I would probably have to be convinced there was a god to grant any type of salvation first.  

What you really need is to be brought to a place where you actually want God to exist.

I wouldn't run from it, i just require a good reason to believe it's truth, maybe if you had done the same you wouldn't have ran from it.

You have no idea whether or not you'd run from it. How would you respond to someone telling you that you needed to be crucified? Assuming you believed it, you would probably run.

Well that's what we are trying to establish, for instance if we accept that superman exists (for the sake of argument) then my anger at his none intervention on 9/11 may be justified. But who rationally would accept such an argument as a truth which some have been blinded to without  first proving superman exists.

Your equating God with superman is the kind of condescension that typifies the arrogant people on forums such as these. No wonder you've been blinded.

People do feel sorry for what they have done, i see it every day, why i even do it myself.

Again with the presumption and arrogance! That's not repentance. That's regret, or feeling bad. While repentance wouldn't be complete without that, it's not even close to the whole package. How about restitution? How about confession? How about turning from ever behaving that way again? All necessary to be repentant, and that's why it's impossible to do without God's grace.

I happen to view myself as human, who occasionally does things i wish i hadn't, what makes you think people don't care ?

Many people don't care about the evil things they've done. Some thrive on it, actually. And you know what? You don't really care. If you really cared, you'd be repentant, and if you were repentant, that would mean you knew God, which you obviously don't. You don't care because you're evil. And that's the Truth.

I've not responded to several of your points, because it's clear to me that certain things just aren't getting through to you and I'm not going to repeat myself ad nauseam. I'm also having a little bit of trouble understanding precisely what you're asking because your writing is sometimes incoherent.