RE: On the subject of Hell and Salvation
February 21, 2019 at 11:40 am
(This post was last modified: February 21, 2019 at 12:12 pm by MilesAbbott81.)
I'm replying now to some apparent edits you've made, with your new comments addressed afterward.
Actually, I never said that, either. I said there were concepts (and in the case of eternal torment, some apparently deliberately misleading translations) that were pagan. The book of Revelation hasn't been tampered with at all, as far as I know. That's not to say there aren't corruptions in the New Testament. There are. In any case, you are clearly not giving what I've written proper consideration. You've repeatedly put words in my mouth. Read more carefully, please.
Why should the idea of a "soul improvement machine" be novel? Human beings are inherently evil, as demonstrated continually and indisputably throughout history. It's only natural that one might be inclined to look for a solution or create a solution to this very serious problem. The idea of Superman is similarly no surprise. Who wouldn't fantasize about a Savior in such a horrible world? But you throw out the baby with the bathwater.
EDIT: It's also silly to equate cruel punishments which result in a superficial benefit with the justice of God, which results in everlasting life. You're writing nothing but propaganda.
Calling the life of Jesus Christ pagan fiction without a shred of proof is just about what I've come to expect from you atheists. You can argue the merits of the source material if you like, but dogmatic declarations concerning the veracity of these things is something you simply can't prove, and that burden is certainly yours to bear.
I understand that the flesh seeks to preserve itself, therefore the idea of hell is repugnant to it. And while I wish everyone could understand that I don't say this with contempt or condemnation, I realize that some will take it that way absent God's grace. But the idea that everyone will accept the words of a prophet is not at all realistic. Even those Israelis who had witnessed the sacking of Jerusalem in Jeremiah's day (who had prophesied it) refused to listen to Jeremiah afterwards. The flesh is extremely, extremely stubborn.
I'm not going to get dragged into another argument with you, possibletarian, because we'll never get past the premise of God's existence, which is sort of required if we're to discuss aspects of Christianity (which is the purpose of this thread). If you're willing to suspend your disbelief in that premise in order to argue about other things, then fine. Otherwise I'm just not going to bother.
(February 21, 2019 at 11:10 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: You're the one who told us that there were stories in new magic book that were the bastard child of christianity and paganism, though...remember?"
Actually, I never said that, either. I said there were concepts (and in the case of eternal torment, some apparently deliberately misleading translations) that were pagan. The book of Revelation hasn't been tampered with at all, as far as I know. That's not to say there aren't corruptions in the New Testament. There are. In any case, you are clearly not giving what I've written proper consideration. You've repeatedly put words in my mouth. Read more carefully, please.
(February 21, 2019 at 11:10 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: The idea of a soul improvement machine is not novel, you are not bearing nuanced arguments as-yet unseen on these boards. You know what I do? Every time my son misses a c key, I slam his fingers under the piano cover. You haven't yet seen the end result, you're in no position to judge. It can't be evil because I'm doing it, and I never do evil things. You simply lack the required perspective.
Why should the idea of a "soul improvement machine" be novel? Human beings are inherently evil, as demonstrated continually and indisputably throughout history. It's only natural that one might be inclined to look for a solution or create a solution to this very serious problem. The idea of Superman is similarly no surprise. Who wouldn't fantasize about a Savior in such a horrible world? But you throw out the baby with the bathwater.
EDIT: It's also silly to equate cruel punishments which result in a superficial benefit with the justice of God, which results in everlasting life. You're writing nothing but propaganda.
(February 21, 2019 at 11:10 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Pagan fiction.
Calling the life of Jesus Christ pagan fiction without a shred of proof is just about what I've come to expect from you atheists. You can argue the merits of the source material if you like, but dogmatic declarations concerning the veracity of these things is something you simply can't prove, and that burden is certainly yours to bear.
(February 21, 2019 at 11:10 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Good to know that you think everyone deserves to die. That's a great way to establish that you understand peoples objections to hell.
I understand that the flesh seeks to preserve itself, therefore the idea of hell is repugnant to it. And while I wish everyone could understand that I don't say this with contempt or condemnation, I realize that some will take it that way absent God's grace. But the idea that everyone will accept the words of a prophet is not at all realistic. Even those Israelis who had witnessed the sacking of Jerusalem in Jeremiah's day (who had prophesied it) refused to listen to Jeremiah afterwards. The flesh is extremely, extremely stubborn.
I'm not going to get dragged into another argument with you, possibletarian, because we'll never get past the premise of God's existence, which is sort of required if we're to discuss aspects of Christianity (which is the purpose of this thread). If you're willing to suspend your disbelief in that premise in order to argue about other things, then fine. Otherwise I'm just not going to bother.
