On the subject of Hell and Salvation

[MilesAbbott81]

No, the nonexistence of your alleged god is a bigger hurdle by far.

But if you could put some serious effort into convincing other Christians that hell is a myth, maybe they'd stop frightening children with it.

I never said hell didn't exist. It just doesn't exist in the way people tend to envision it.

Indeed.

I remain confused about the origins of an eternal hell. It simply does not exist in Judaism , the foundation on which Christianity and Islam are based..All three worship the same god, all trace their origins to the prophet Abraham. (hence the term  'The Abrahamic religions")***


As far as I can tell, it evolved, beginning with the Roman concept of an after life. The diverse claims about an after life,, from several faiths, are irrelevant to me. This leads back to why I find it impossible to have a rational discussion with a devour apologist of any religion; all of the arguments take the existence of god as a given.  That claim has not been proved, so I'm able to accept it as 'a given'.  I demand proof of the existence of whatever flavour of deity the apologist favours before proceeding an inch further.. 

The problem of evil and suffering is secondary, but also an important obstacle in arguing the existence of an infinitely compassionate god. Hindus and Buddhists make a reasonable  enough argument, if  the first hurdle [of the existence of god[ is overcome. 

Christianity has had 2000 years to come up with an answer to the problem of suffering and of evil, especially when related to the suffering of innocents; animals and children. No such answer has been provided.

Epicurus wrote his opinion about gods in general, but it fits the Abrahamic faiths perfectly:


       “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

― Epicurus   

I'm not trying to argue with you specifically, but I think the problem of evil and suffering is actually just as big an obstacle as accepting the evidence for the existence of God, because failure to solve the former results in a lack of motivation to do the latter. Not that that is any excuse, or even the reason why you can't accept the evidence.

Epicurus was a fool, because he failed to understand that there is another option. God is both able and willing to prevent evil. So whence cometh evil? From God:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

Does that make God evil? No. There's a difference between being evil and creating it. Being made in the image of God requires that we know good from evil. That's why this extremely important verse exists in Genesis:

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..." (Genesis 3:22)

So we learn good from evil by doing evil things ourselves, and God brings evil upon us for committing evil deeds. That is why we suffer.

The reason why innocents suffer is difficult to accept, particularly from a carnal perspective. Here is one reason:

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me... (Deuteronomy 5:9)

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, either. Evil parents beget evil children. In some if not most cases, children are spared being raised by those parents and the consequences that go along with all of that. Yes, sometimes it's better for them to die than to live. Many times I've cursed the day I was born, and I know I'd have been better off had I died as a child, before the sins of my fathers had fallen on me.

The wrath of God is a terrible, terrible thing to behold. He does not tolerate wickedness.

You might ask what the point is in bringing wrath upon further generations. I will say this: many will be brought to repentance when they come to realize the devastation their sins have wrought. When parents realize what their wickedness has done to their children, when they come to know that they're the ones who brought evil upon themselves, they will know that all the suffering was not in vain. There's a point to it all. No one dies in vain, no one suffers pointlessly, no one suffers arbitrarily, because that isn't Who He is. He is perfectly just, perfectly righteous, perfectly wise. We, on the other hand, are wicked, myopic, and stupid.

Not that I expect you all to accept this. It's just the truth.

EDIT: Since animals were mentioned as part of this picture, I'll say that I don't see them playing a huge role. It's lamentable when they suffer needlessly at the hands of evil people, but they haven't been given minds like us, either, so it's not really the same. Nevertheless, their deaths are not in vain, either, because they help highlight our wickedness, something very necessary in the context of repentance. By the way, are you eating conventional beef or poultry? Any idea how much those animals suffer, and how you're contributing to their suffering by spending your dollars where they shouldn't be spent? Animals raised with organic farming practices are much better off, so perhaps you should consider buying organic meats (which are better for you anyway).