(January 10, 2019 at 7:17 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Just trying the Serious option out.
So I've been wondering, we have some current Christians who believe that once a person is saved, they are forever saved, and that if you really knew Jesus, you would be a true Christian and never stop being one (or something of the sort) ... so anyone who claims they knew Jesus but no longer believe was never a true Christian in the first place (according to them).
But my problem with this reasoning is I'm not convinced at all that any current Christian "knows" Jesus in a way that is clearly and conclusively different from how former Christians "knew" Jesus. And I remember making a thread asking Christians themselves to explain to me what they really meant by "knowing" Jesus, and while I got answers, I didn't get exactly what I was asking for in these answers. They were rather vague and failed to clearly distinguish the kind of knowledge former Christians had and the kind of knowledge current Christians have regarding Christ.
So this time, I want to ask those who used to be Christian, especially of the "I had a personal relationship with Jesus" type of Christian, what exactly did it feel like to "know" Jesus? And what would you say to current Christians who are convinced they "know" Jesus and think you never truly "knew" him yourself?
By the way, this is not to exclude theists (or atheists who were never Christians) from coming in here to discuss, they're very well free to do so. But the question is really for former Christians.
Believer here.
I would say that "knowing" Christ, is more a matter of seeing reality through the lens of his life and ministry, or through the eyes of the Gospel. Once seen that way there's no way of unseeing it. One recognizes life's sheer brokenness, incompleteness, frailty, and also what redeems it, and makes it whole. In him reveals everyman.
While many believers may recognize the underlying perception here, atheists and former-christians, appear to be amiss, absent of such a perception both past and present, so they're left never truly understanding. Trying to contemplate something by hearing, which can only be seen. The atheists seems to stuck on questions of scientific and historical facts about the bible, about the gospel, but amiss of the profound life and meaning of it.
" the essence of religious feeling doesn’t fit in with any reasoning, with any crimes and trespasses, or with any atheisms; there’s something else here that’s not that, and it will eternally be not that; there’s something in it that atheisms will eternally glance off, and they will eternally be talking not about that.” - Dostoevsky
