Why I don't believe in 'free will'

[Edwardo Piet]

If fruit flies have it then so do I

This of course raises the question, what is free will? Specifically, if we can find it in all sorts of animals, including insects, does it really count?

From the above article that Adrian posted - once again:

As humans, we are as much in control of our behavior as anything in the universe.

Not just animals. And not just life forms. Anything. So we are as much in control of our behavior as an a spec of dust of a stray atom iow. Zero in other words...

It's not about control of behavior. It's about freedom as in more capability, consciousness, intelligence and freedom in general (avoidability/'evitability' that Dennett speaks of basically).. And defining 'free will' as being capable of controlling our own behavior (when there's no real reason (at least that I know of yet to believe we are anyway) is a completely gratuitous definition. It might seem meaningful but it doesn't give us any more powers, ...you don't need it to be moral in anyway, doesn't give us any more real meaning, nothing that matters anyway, you don't need them, who cares (to paraphrase Dan Dennett at the end of that vid somewhat).

It doesn't really give us any more powers to believe otherwise...as Dennett says in the vid it's just an illusion[ to think that it does.

I believe that I know it's an now illusion though and since because of that and incidentally I don't believe in (behavioral) 'free will' - it's no longer an illusion for me other than I'm aware that it is for others who do[/b] believe in the behavioral definition of 'free will'.

Anyway, I did say that I was going to leave this subject alone, but perhaps something in my brain has taken control and is making these decisions for me

...

Something in your brain that was either influenced by external things or from other thoughts in the brain, or both - I'd say that I think it's almost certainly it [i]must be both. Because there is a constant interaction between what goes on internally in the brain and how it interprets and is effected by the outside world...surely?

So I'd say something in your brain, and your reactions in the brain to things outside of your brain, your genetics, your environment, etc, - made you have to chip in just that once more (whether it was determined or not. I don't believe it is because I'm a indeterminist. Because that Quantum Mechanics supports INdeterminism right?)

Because of course INdeterminism as (as least attempted to be) explained in this thread by me doesn't give any more power to (behavioral) 'free will' than does determinism....determinism simply makes it impossible.

Because the thing is...how does more random equate to more choice? It doesn't does it? That was my point about the dice. Simply being random as opposed to rigged doesn't make you have make you have any more 'free will' (as in behavioral free will.).

To close again with another quote from the article that supports this point I am making and have been at least trying to make throughout the thread lol (crucial part bolded) :

Since the 1920s physicists have been trying to convince themselves that quantum indeterminacy can in some way explain Free Will. Dennett dismisses this idea as silly. How, he asks, can random resolutions of quantum-level events provide people with any control over their behavior?

This is why INdeterminism gives no more power to the more common definition of free will (behavioral free will) than determinism....determinism simply makes it impossible. There is still no known valid reason to believe that INdeterminism would somehow give people 'any control over their behavior' (as said in the above quote) whatsoever.



Basically it's physics. And you and I are part of physics. And whether we believe that we are simply doing what it is compelling us to or not - we are. Because the belief itself is part of physics either way, whether believed or disbelieved - it's still physics. The way it rolls - we are part of it and we follow it - we are part of the ride! Whether we have a consciousness or awareness or not. Whether we are intelligent or not.

I am what I am. I am doing what I am doing. It may be stating the obvious but at least it's without any wishful thinking - tells it like it is.

EvF