(June 19, 2019 at 5:30 am)Belaqua Wrote:(June 19, 2019 at 5:27 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: We can only guess at how much scientific progress may have been stifled
Emphasis on "only guess."
There are plenty of examples of high-quality scientific or mathematical work being done with the support of the church. Even Galileo had elite support within the Vatican, which would have let him avoid trouble if he'd been the least bit diplomatic.
So OK -- history could have been better. But it's pure ideology to pretend that it's simply religion against science.
I thought I worded my statements to allow room for what you are saying. I know that the church supported many important intellectual endeavors. I know there are two sides to the coin.
Islamic cultures (especially in the Golden Age) produced many great advancements. But such cultures frustrated free thinking... outlawed atheism... and I hold it very much against them. The Athenians (obvious contributors to the body of knowledge) executed Socrates, and I hold it very much against them. I think it's great that the church pursued science. But it doesn't excuse them for suppressing (out of fear and an urge to maintain dominance) ideas that were incongruent with their dogma.
Look at the ancient and medieval world and anti-intellectualism is everywhere. And everywhere it is wrong. It still rears its head in modern times, and still under the guise of service to Christ. I'm not about to excuse it now, and I'm not going to excuse it in the medieval period. The church weren't a bunch of sinister mustache-twirlers, true. But I think you give them too much credit.
