(July 23, 2019 at 10:30 am)mordant Wrote:(July 23, 2019 at 12:34 am)outtathereligioncloset Wrote: There have been times when I envied people with the faith to believe in a heaven and eternal life there. BUT when the more Fundamental Southern Baptist zealot-like members of my family were in anguish at the “knowledge” that my brother has surely gone to hell as a result of his suicide, I found some degree of comfort in my own “knowledge” as an atheist that he is just.....gone.
As a side note, not all fundamentalists (arguably, not MOST) believe you can lose your salvation under any circumstance. The teaching that suicide is "the unpardonable sin" (as opposed to all the other things it's been equated with, from masturbation to simple unbelief) is in my experience mostly a product of the holiness movement, particularly of old-line Pentecostals. David Wilkerson of The Cross and The Switchblade fame taught this in an effort to prevent suicides among drug users he was ministering to, for example.
I came out of IFCA churches (Bible churches) and this would not have been a cause of agony for anyone in those kinds of churches. We had other things to torment ourselves with, of course.
Sorry for the loss of your brother, particularly in that way. I lost a brother to a freak cancer, and that was bad enough. To my point above about having other things to torment ourselves with, my brother was so inconsolable at his diagnosis ... and was convinced that his life of righteous living and church leadership had not atoned for the sins of his youth. Those, in turn, were relatively pedestrian things that he was convinced god still held against him. Such as having sex outside of marriage or getting drunk.
Each religion seems to find its own unique way to turn the screws of guilt and shame ...
Please do not misunderstand, I'm not trying to say derogatory things about your brother just have a statement to make.
If your brother was part of IFCA then he did not take seriously the doctrine taught, the doctrine says that Christ alone saves through the atonement of our sins because of His shed blood and death, not what we have done or are currently doing. We are human and will make mistakes (ie. sin), if any of us could be sinless then Jesus would not have had to sacrifice His life for us. Some churches within a denomination will try and scare people into believing and it's ridiculous. I believe they do so because they lean on their understanding of the scriptures instead of leaning on God.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.