Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 14, 2025, 8:34 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[Serious] Book reports
#40
RE: Book reports
Just finished the section (in Feser's book) related to the Aristotelian notion of causality (efficient, formal, material, final) along with the author's address of the Humean thinking with regards to causality.

This section (despite the title of the book) was a bit of a tough read for me. Some of the stuff I would have loved more elaboration on, and I am left not completely understanding what he really means by such words as "end" or "goal". For me, final causality is a very iffy thing. I get that final causality does not require the agent to be conscious in order to be directed to a certain effect, but something about directedness nevertheless does appear to imply some ultimate "goalmaker". I am not sure how a heart pumping blood into the circulatory system would imply that there's an end towards which the heart does what it does, unless there is an intelligent ultimate designer of this world who allowed for the eventual formation of the heart so that it would be able to do so for the sake of keeping the human body alive and well. Under the worldview in which such a designer does not exist, and/or evolution is purely a blind process (before the emergence of human beings at least), I'm not confident in saying that the heart has evolved in order to keep the human body alive and well.

Additionally, I don't think Feser made a good case against Humean causality in this section. It may be very convenient to speak of causality (even in the Aristotelian sense) in our everyday languages and at the level of our everyday experiences, and it's fair to say that causality makes a lot of sense according to our intuitions. But we should take more care when we then try to apply our causality intuitions to the more sophisticated language(s) we use when we start to do philosophy and talk about the fundamentals of this world/reality.

Given what we know/observe about this world in terms of structure, and in light of the fact that there are things that occur in this world that are not completely predictable (even if we had access to all knowledge pertaining to this world), I'm personally inclined to generally agree with Hume here. Even at the point of a violently-thrown brick striking the glass of a window, because of the apparent randomness of the particles that constitute both the brick and the window, the window could potentially break in more than one specific way and could also potentially not break at all (unless there is something about the forces of nature that prevent this from happening). In other words, because of what we've been able to observe at the quantum level, I can't say that bricks and glass windows could ever be used as part of an analogy that adequately explains what causality is ultimately. We speak of the brick causing a break in the window glass, but really what is happening is that a bunch of particles interacted with one another in an apparently random way so that a specific state in spacetime occurs and that this specific state could instead have been a slightly different or even perhaps a radically different state in that same "spacetime zone".

This is how I see it for now at least. Anyhow, one good thing from reading this section was there was quite a bit to learn that I didn't know before ... even if I didn't end up agreeing with some of the stuff being said. Furthermore, despite my skepticism of causality, I still want to carry on assuming Aristotelian metaphysics as I continue to read through the book just to see how strong the eventually-stated arguments for God made by Aquinas/Feser hold under these assumptions.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Book reports - by Belacqua - October 13, 2019 at 6:46 pm
RE: Book reports - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 13, 2019 at 6:49 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 13, 2019 at 6:53 pm
RE: Book reports - by Acrobat - October 13, 2019 at 11:59 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 14, 2019 at 1:03 am
RE: Book reports - by Fake Messiah - October 14, 2019 at 2:53 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 14, 2019 at 3:50 am
RE: Book reports - by Fake Messiah - October 14, 2019 at 8:24 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 14, 2019 at 9:04 pm
RE: Book reports - by Fake Messiah - October 17, 2019 at 8:43 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 17, 2019 at 6:44 pm
RE: Book reports - by Fake Messiah - October 17, 2019 at 10:02 pm
RE: Book reports - by Acrobat - October 14, 2019 at 8:25 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 14, 2019 at 6:49 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 13, 2019 at 8:08 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 4:23 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 14, 2019 at 4:56 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 6:04 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 14, 2019 at 6:49 am
RE: Book reports - by Succubus - October 13, 2019 at 8:58 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 13, 2019 at 9:25 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 13, 2019 at 11:44 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 13, 2019 at 9:03 pm
RE: Book reports - by EgoDeath - October 13, 2019 at 9:44 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 13, 2019 at 9:47 pm
RE: Book reports - by EgoDeath - October 13, 2019 at 11:41 pm
RE: Book reports - by EgoDeath - October 14, 2019 at 2:26 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 15, 2019 at 7:56 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 17, 2019 at 12:19 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 21, 2019 at 6:05 am
RE: Book reports - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 21, 2019 at 6:40 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 22, 2019 at 5:07 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 22, 2019 at 5:51 am
RE: Book reports - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 22, 2019 at 8:32 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 22, 2019 at 5:48 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 23, 2019 at 11:58 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 23, 2019 at 6:20 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 22, 2019 at 7:20 am
RE: Book reports - by mordant - October 24, 2019 at 3:28 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 24, 2019 at 10:16 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 25, 2019 at 9:43 pm
RE: Book reports - by mordant - October 26, 2019 at 9:20 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 26, 2019 at 8:20 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 29, 2019 at 6:52 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 29, 2019 at 7:28 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 29, 2019 at 8:24 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 29, 2019 at 8:37 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - October 31, 2019 at 6:12 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - October 31, 2019 at 10:48 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 4, 2019 at 10:43 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - November 5, 2019 at 1:29 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 5, 2019 at 4:33 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - November 8, 2019 at 5:37 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 8, 2019 at 7:33 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 11, 2019 at 6:51 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - November 12, 2019 at 12:08 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 14, 2019 at 7:05 am
RE: Book reports - by The Grand Nudger - November 5, 2019 at 4:15 pm
RE: Book reports - by The Grand Nudger - November 8, 2019 at 1:09 pm
RE: Book reports - by The Grand Nudger - November 13, 2019 at 1:59 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 14, 2019 at 9:51 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 24, 2019 at 10:33 am
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - November 25, 2019 at 7:43 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 25, 2019 at 11:43 am
RE: Book reports - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 25, 2019 at 8:03 am
RE: Book reports - by Gawdzilla Sama - December 5, 2019 at 5:39 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 27, 2019 at 8:33 am
RE: Book reports - by ThinkingIsThinking - November 27, 2019 at 5:27 pm
RE: Book reports - by EgoDeath - December 5, 2019 at 4:25 pm
RE: Book reports - by ThinkingIsThinking - December 6, 2019 at 6:18 am
RE: Book reports - by EgoDeath - December 6, 2019 at 6:10 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - November 29, 2019 at 10:04 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - December 6, 2019 at 5:55 am
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - December 6, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: Book reports - by Grandizer - December 6, 2019 at 10:00 pm
RE: Book reports - by Belacqua - December 6, 2019 at 11:51 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Your view on the allegory in Watership Down book? KillerRabbit 13 1841 September 19, 2024 at 10:56 pm
Last Post: Fireball
  New Apologetics Book, 25 Reasons to be Christian. SaintPeter 67 7585 July 15, 2024 at 1:26 am
Last Post: Nay_Sayer
  I am researching a book. Input? CosmicCelticAtheist 26 3886 November 1, 2023 at 1:24 pm
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  Book Recommendations Gnomey 40 4991 July 22, 2020 at 11:24 pm
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  Sending a book back in time Rahn127 23 3729 November 14, 2019 at 8:51 pm
Last Post: Alex K
  Stupid Book 'Abundant Living' RiddledWithFear 8 2574 December 20, 2016 at 9:02 pm
Last Post: chimp3
  Book suggestion: "God Hates You, Hate Him Back" drfuzzy 8 3370 June 28, 2016 at 1:42 pm
Last Post: emjay
  In need of a book suggestion Sara0229 29 7903 January 4, 2016 at 2:26 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  CJ Werleman Loses the Plot in New Book The Valkyrie 4 1930 September 16, 2015 at 7:29 am
Last Post: SteelCurtain
  Jerry Coyne's new book: Faith Versus Fact Mudhammam 17 6940 August 13, 2015 at 12:22 am
Last Post: smsavage32



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)