RE: Here is why you should believe in God.
April 5, 2020 at 8:12 am
(This post was last modified: April 5, 2020 at 8:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 4, 2020 at 5:33 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: ..duuuuuhYes, the anthropomorphic principle is tautologically true. That's why empty headed wonder about the sheer fact of your existence lacks the inferential value required to persuasively argue for a god.
You do realise you're just repeating an empty tautology, right? Even in the existence of a deity in your worldview, you would still repeat the same stupid objection you just wrote.
Imagine dolls suddenly becoming conscious and thinking that they solved all the age-old philosophical problems of their existence by saying" there is no need to think of the possibility of a manufacturer... we're clearly brought here because requirement of our existence are met".... stupid right..?
The first reaction of a fucking doll becoming conscious is to think it has to have a creator, a manufacturer. And just because the subsequent dolls changed shape and evolved after billions of years shouldn't make them forget their gracious first manufacturer... it's really that simple.
Regardless of whether a god exists, and regardless of how we came to be what we are - the requirements for the existence of an organism we'll call "Kloro" must have been met - for this organism called "Kloro" to be here..asking the question.
Quote:A worse universe with conscious beings like us/worse than us is entirely possible, it's not hard to imagine much simpler scenarios of some naive notion of consciousness in some unidimensional existence, which makes the question even more pressing : how come we have a better universe than infinitely many worse outcomes ? It doesn't take more than to understand sanely the question, to conclude that it took a personal cause to come up with a good enough universe for its ultimate purpose.I don't know why you keep repeating this. I'm sure that a "worse" or "better" universe is entirely possible. That doesn't tell us anything about a god. How come our universe is worse than infinitely many better outcomes?
Back to the ex nihilo question, "something can't come from nothing" tautology is not broken in the case of a deity. A deity was always there, to say it came from nothing already presupposes the deity was preceded by this nothing, but a deity is eternal by definition.
If you think that this is a rule..and I want to stress that it isn't...then fine, we'll go with it. Gods a fuckup, that's why. I somehow doubt that you really want to assert this non rule as a rule.
Quote:Belief in a god can of course be justified in a cumulative argument. Something caused all this. A first cause's properties can be inferred from its effects since, again, something can't give what it doesn't have - and this holds true in your 747 example when investigated closely -. We already have a personal, eternal agent outside of our universe.I'm sure that belief in god can be justified any number of ways. Human beings are good at justifying things. Pretty much anything, really.
All the objections I know against what's above are nothing more than dishonest wordplay. All the premises to get to a personal, eternal cause are the simplest elements of reasoning possible. And they're all it takes to justify belief in god.
It only remains to justify how a first personal cause would possess the justness property. One this is done, justness directly implies this eternal agent provided us with guidance.
If you have any good reasons, you should hurry up and get to them.
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