(July 20, 2020 at 9:23 am)Gwaithmir Wrote:(July 19, 2020 at 11:00 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I believe that even if we're seeing a miracle right in front of us, those who choose to believe will believe but those who choose not to believe will not believe.
Space is literally a miracle in itself, most humans know about the phenomena it has; from rain of diamonds on some planets to black holes to pulsars; but many people don't believe in a creator after knowing about them.
So it depends on the person. If the person rejects God; nothing will make them believe in God, literally nothing.
Wrong! If there is truly an omniscient God, he knows what is in everyone's mind and what it would take to convince them that he exists. I have rational standards about what I believe or don't believe. Thus far, I've never received even a busy signal from any deity.
Ya, Dillahunty uses that line of argument, and he has a point.
This claimed god knows what would convince you, me or any atheist to believe in him/her/it/housecat.
Therefore, this god could easily convince you, me, or any atheist to believe in him/her/it/housecat.
But this god refuses to do so. Therefore he/she/it/housecat actually intends that we remain atheists and we are merely fulfilling his/her/its/housecats will by doing so.
In consequence, theists are going against god's will by attempting to convince us that he/she/it/housecat actually exists.
That puts the theist in opposition to god and so they are condemned to hell for opposing god's will.
The theists are not trying to save us, they are damning themselves.
God then vanishes because logic.
One can play with this and develop all manner of unintended consequences. Usually, the next whine is free will, which argument garners a whole bucket of contradictions of it's own.
Or perhaps Kalam, which is risible. WLC has made a career out of that crap.
