Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims

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Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims

Belacqua Offline

Senior Member

Religious Views: Um...

Posts: 4971
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#157

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims

June 7, 2021 at 8:44 pm

(June 7, 2021 at 8:16 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Given that fertilization is the beginning of a new organism

Yep, this is the key point.

Before fertilization there is no discrete object with the complete genetic material required to be human. After fertilization there is.

That's an ontological change, and after that it's developmental.

Find

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Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by zwanzig - May 23, 2021 at 6:21 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Gwaithmir - May 23, 2021 at 6:51 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Jackie - May 23, 2021 at 7:38 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by no one - May 23, 2021 at 7:44 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by zwanzig - May 23, 2021 at 9:44 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Abaddon_ire - May 23, 2021 at 11:34 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - May 23, 2021 at 11:43 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Anomalocaris - May 23, 2021 at 12:18 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Abaddon_ire - May 23, 2021 at 5:08 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Anomalocaris - May 23, 2021 at 7:06 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Drich - May 24, 2021 at 12:44 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Jehanne - May 24, 2021 at 9:37 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Drich - May 25, 2021 at 4:36 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Crossless2.0 - May 25, 2021 at 5:30 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Drich - May 26, 2021 at 2:47 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - May 26, 2021 at 1:12 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - May 26, 2021 at 6:08 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - May 26, 2021 at 8:48 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Drich - May 27, 2021 at 12:49 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by HappySkeptic - May 27, 2021 at 1:30 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Drich - May 28, 2021 at 1:47 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - May 28, 2021 at 2:35 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Jackie - May 28, 2021 at 2:38 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Drich - June 1, 2021 at 11:56 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 1, 2021 at 12:26 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Drich - June 1, 2021 at 1:05 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 1, 2021 at 2:25 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Abaddon_ire - June 3, 2021 at 10:44 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2021 at 5:55 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Jackie - May 28, 2021 at 2:12 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - May 28, 2021 at 2:50 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2021 at 8:39 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 2, 2021 at 10:08 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by awty - June 2, 2021 at 3:06 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 2, 2021 at 3:11 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 3, 2021 at 11:19 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 3, 2021 at 11:34 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 3, 2021 at 11:41 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 3, 2021 at 11:45 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Drich - June 3, 2021 at 11:23 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 3, 2021 at 11:28 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 3, 2021 at 11:45 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 3, 2021 at 1:25 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 3, 2021 at 4:46 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by HappySkeptic - June 3, 2021 at 5:13 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 4, 2021 at 1:16 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 3, 2021 at 1:32 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 3, 2021 at 3:40 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 3, 2021 at 4:11 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Valkyrie - June 3, 2021 at 5:32 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 2, 2021 at 10:32 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 3, 2021 at 3:23 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Nay_Sayer - June 3, 2021 at 4:14 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 3, 2021 at 9:14 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 4, 2021 at 1:40 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 4, 2021 at 9:23 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 4, 2021 at 9:27 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 4, 2021 at 9:56 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 4, 2021 at 11:27 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 4, 2021 at 12:07 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 4, 2021 at 1:50 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 4, 2021 at 2:16 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by zwanzig - June 4, 2021 at 10:03 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 4, 2021 at 11:38 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 4, 2021 at 6:36 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - June 4, 2021 at 10:25 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by onlinebiker - June 4, 2021 at 10:51 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 4, 2021 at 12:09 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Abaddon_ire - June 4, 2021 at 6:45 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by onlinebiker - June 4, 2021 at 7:05 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 4, 2021 at 9:04 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 4, 2021 at 9:14 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Abaddon_ire - June 4, 2021 at 9:22 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Peebo-Thuhlu - June 4, 2021 at 9:07 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Peebo-Thuhlu - June 4, 2021 at 9:18 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Angrboda - June 4, 2021 at 9:27 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 4, 2021 at 9:27 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 4, 2021 at 9:57 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 4, 2021 at 11:21 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 4, 2021 at 11:29 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 5, 2021 at 9:20 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Fake Messiah - June 5, 2021 at 10:06 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 5, 2021 at 11:30 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Fake Messiah - June 5, 2021 at 11:55 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 5, 2021 at 12:10 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Fake Messiah - June 5, 2021 at 1:30 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 5, 2021 at 1:43 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Belacqua - June 5, 2021 at 12:32 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by awty - June 5, 2021 at 2:30 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 6, 2021 at 1:03 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Fake Messiah - June 6, 2021 at 1:40 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 5, 2021 at 2:22 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 5, 2021 at 2:34 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 5, 2021 at 2:42 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Abaddon_ire - June 6, 2021 at 1:41 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 1:53 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Abaddon_ire - June 9, 2021 at 7:09 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 9, 2021 at 8:26 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Abaddon_ire - June 9, 2021 at 9:56 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 9, 2021 at 11:14 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 5, 2021 at 2:53 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 5, 2021 at 3:05 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 5, 2021 at 3:07 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 6, 2021 at 2:03 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 2:08 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Astreja - June 6, 2021 at 2:14 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 10:00 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 2:24 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - June 6, 2021 at 3:25 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - June 6, 2021 at 10:34 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 1:18 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 2:20 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 2:41 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by awty - June 6, 2021 at 2:54 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 3:41 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by awty - June 6, 2021 at 3:51 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 2:56 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 3:45 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 4:02 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 3:57 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 4:13 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 4:25 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 6, 2021 at 6:34 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by awty - June 6, 2021 at 4:40 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 4:52 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 5:06 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 5:22 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 5:34 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 5:41 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 5:53 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 5:57 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 6:01 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 6:07 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - June 6, 2021 at 7:16 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 6, 2021 at 7:36 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2021 at 8:42 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - June 6, 2021 at 10:12 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 7, 2021 at 12:22 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by HappySkeptic - June 7, 2021 at 12:34 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 12:52 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Fake Messiah - June 7, 2021 at 12:44 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by awty - June 7, 2021 at 1:30 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 8, 2021 at 12:24 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by awty - June 8, 2021 at 12:37 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by ronedee - June 8, 2021 at 12:47 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2021 at 12:32 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 1:09 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 2:01 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 4:56 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 2:11 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 2:33 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 3:42 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 3:46 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 3:49 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 5:40 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 6:15 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 7:16 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 7:38 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by vulcanlogician - June 7, 2021 at 7:57 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 8:16 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by vulcanlogician - June 7, 2021 at 8:40 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 9:10 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 9:43 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Belacqua - June 7, 2021 at 8:44 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 8:12 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 8:22 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 8:46 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Belacqua - June 7, 2021 at 9:17 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 9:32 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by vulcanlogician - June 7, 2021 at 9:39 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 9:41 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by Belacqua - June 7, 2021 at 10:49 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by John 6IX Breezy - June 7, 2021 at 10:55 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 9:11 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 9:31 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2021 at 9:35 pm

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Architect Of Fate - June 8, 2021 at 12:15 am

RE: Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2021 at 7:47 am

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