Isn’t pantheism the same thing as atheism?

[Ferrocyanide]

Sure, you can call it whatever you want - is that...when we consider all of the other everything in everything, when the single cabbage frying will of the single guy is the will of everything?

It is but one small expression of God.

Wait.
What is the difference between an expression of the pantheist god and a will of the pantheist god?


The Grand Nudger initiated that conversation with

If we thought of a bus as all the people and the metal - BusGod....would one person on the bus wanting to fry cabbage on the bus...be the Will of the Bus....?

and there was a conversation about stretching the bus to match it with the size of the universe.
I’m not sure what the point of that is.
You could also shrink the universe and make it the size of the bus and eliminate all other materials and photons.

Overall, it looked like what you were saying is that the laws of physics, the way the universe behaves, the properties of matter/energy, all of that, you are calling it the will of the universe (or the will of the god).

You said Christianity is essentially dualistic. There is the jewish god and then there is nature.

Pantheism is monism, which means the pantheist god is fused with the universe or is the universe.

But then you had this line

God would not create a universe with laws opposed to His Will.

so, at one point in time, there was the pantheist god but no universe and then he created the universe and fused with it?

but then you wrote:

because God acts through natural laws, which are His Will

but if natural laws are all there is, then this seems to suggest that atheism and this version of pantheism are identical.

Atheism sees the universe and its laws as meaningless, pantheism sees them as the Will of God. As for how a brainless thing can have meaning, I see not why we should assume that anything with a brain has meaning out of the blue either. I hold that meaning comes from God, from nature.

I was having this conversation with The Grand Nudger (page 9, 10, 11, possibly more)
https://atheistforums.org/thread-63529.html
and what you just said seems to align with what he was saying.