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Even if theism is a failure, it's still superior to atheism
RE: Even if theism is a failure, it's still superior to atheism
(September 20, 2022 at 1:08 pm)polymath257 Wrote:
(September 20, 2022 at 12:01 pm)Jehanne Wrote: No one (including me) is doubting that Islam had amazing scholars; all that I am claiming is that Islam succeeded where Western Catholicism failed, namely, in suppressing the logical outcome of Greek science, which laid the foundations of the Italian Renaissance ultimately leading to the Enlightenment.

I do not know enough about Al Ghazali; if he led a "revolution", it was certainly a quiet one; even The Glorious Revolution centuries later in England was well remembered,  even though it was bloodless, something quite atypical of the power struggles all throughout medieval Islam.

As for the Battle of Tours, such was not a raiding party.  Two armies of 20 to 30K men each stared at each other for 8 days straight, with the Muslims having men on horseback with the Franks on foot.  On the 8th day the former charged 3 times, each time being repelled, before the Franks got into gear before killing thousands.  A decisive battle for Western Europe concluded shortly thereafter.

Hmmm... the 'logical outcome' of Greek mathematics was something that needed to be changed. The Greeks, after the discovery of irrational ratios, had a split between numbers and geometry that was a significant hindrance to the development of mathematics. It was Islamic scholars that *started* the reunification of those two subjects (the simple example of a 'number line' is one that no Greek mathematician would have allowed and is due to an Islamic scholar). the Italian renaissance and subsequent enlightenment relied heavily on texts that were translated from Arabic and the ideas elaborated from those texts by Islamic scholars.

Al Ghazali was anything but quiet. His arguments were the prime ones that lead to the suppression of the philosophers and those willing to integrate 'foreign science' into their system.

Again, I am not an expert on the battle of Tours, but what you relate seems plausible given what I do know. But it is impossible to claim that the Islamic culture of Cordoba was not highly intellectual, free to scholars of other faiths, and immensely important to the subsequent rise of learning in Christian Europe.

To an extent, you're pounding on an open door.  As I posted before, the reaction in the West failed:

Condemnations of 1210–1277

No one whatsoever doubts the many and marvelous contributions of Early to High Middle Ages Islamic scholars; to cast doubt on such tremendous contributions, such as those that occurred at Al-Andalus, is to doubt the curvature of the Earth.

My point is that their contributions fizzled, not because of one man, Al ghazali (who, if he was a true revolutionary would have ended up dead), but, because of his religion, Islam, whose adherents turned their backs on their own magnificent scholars.

During the High Middle Ages, Islam did not change; it just got around to conquering its intellectuals after completing its geographical conquests.
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RE: Even if theism is a failure, it's still superior to atheism - by Jehanne - September 20, 2022 at 1:29 pm

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