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Is it possible that the universe could be eternal??...
RE: Is it possible that the universe could be eternal??...
(December 29, 2022 at 10:02 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(December 29, 2022 at 9:29 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Because whether there exists a case of an actual excluded middle depends upon the specifics under discussion, not some bollocks about "Aristotlean dialectics" (*) which presumes to establish a generalization, nor by seeing whether there is or is not an actual case of the excluded middle in a totally different context, such as in the paper you quoted.  Mister Agenda posited that there are two possibilities, either the universe had a beginning or it didn't.  You suggested that a model of the universe that is finite but unbounded violates the dichotomy that Mister Agenda posited.  Upon his asking how a universe with no temporal boundary in the past was in any sense not a universe without a beginning, you obliviously simply posted a link to the Wikipedia article without answering his question.  The Hawking-Hartle proposes the universe did not have a beginning and thus is simply a species of beginningless universe, not a third possibility.  Thus the dichotomy that Mister Agenda posted is valid.  None of the shit you've posted has addressed that point.

Now, you can either apologize for your slander, or explain in what way your responses to me are relevant to the question of whether the Hawking-Hartle universe is or is not categorically distinct from universes without a beginning in general.

(*)  The quote from Locke you posted is a form of Liebniz' Law and has no relevance to the discussion.

Slander?  As in (from Merriam-Webster):

Quote:1: the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation
2
: a false and defamatory oral statement about a person

Leibniz was critical of Locke, writing a point-by-point rebuttal in 1704.  I am not sure that anyone has ever claimed that Locke pilfered from Leibniz.

Leibniz's Law is, per Wikipedia, known as the "Identity of Indiscernibles" (PII).

The Hawking-Hartle model is not "simply a species of beginningless universe".  In their model our Universe is finite but started out just as space and no time.  I doubt that idea would have floated with either Locke or Leibniz given their idea of the PII.  Locke goes on and on about motion in his Essay, and so, I think that he would have found the idea of space without any time to at least be odd.

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Messages In This Thread
RE: Is it possible that the universe could be eternal??... - by Angrboda - December 30, 2022 at 10:42 am

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