(July 24, 2023 at 5:39 am)Nishant Xavier Wrote:(July 24, 2023 at 4:31 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Mis-defining atheism won't save you. Atheism means lack of belief in gods. In other words, it isn't a positive belief. It isn't even 'There is no God'. It is 'I do not believe there are gods.'
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Ok. Let's say A-Mars-ism is lack of belief in the planet Mars, i.e. the claim that the Planet Mars does not exist. This is a false belief, and it absolutely is not excused from the obligation of trying to prove itself true, which it cannot do; and it easily can be proven false. As it is.
Will get back to the others later. But I want to show the mistake some are making.
(A): Atheism is True. There is no God.
(T): Theism is True. There is a God.
Now, even Dawkins says he's a "6.9" (out of 7) Atheist, a so-called Strong Atheist, not an Agnostic Atheist but an almost 100% certain Atheist. He should have used percentages to illustrate his point better rather than an arbitrary scale of 7. But anyway, there is a difference between the Truth Value of a Proposition and the Probability of it being True. If A is true, T is not True. If T is true, A is not true. That is Truth Value. Probability however would be like saying, I am like 90+% or more certain that A or T is true. The objective ontological Truth Value of A or T is one thing, the subjective epistemic certainty of A or T is another. Some of the responses are clearly confusing both. If you are not certain of God's Existence, ok, that's what the Theistic Arguments are there for. But Atheism absolutely is a claim like that the Planet Mars does not exist and is equally false as it.
But A-Mars-ism would NOT be a claim - in this context- that Mars does not exist. 'I believe Mars does not exist' and 'I do not believe Mars exist' are not the same statement. Additionally, the positive claim that Mars does not exist isn't the same as lacking the belief that it does exist.
Even if the atheist lack of belief in gods turns out to be false, that doesn't negate the lack of that belief, it just makes it wrong. There is a MASSIVE semantic difference between 'Gods do not exist' and 'I do not believe gods exist'.
And shame on Dawkins for giving himself a 6.9. I don't like the scale, but I'd put myself at a 7.0 - I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain as to whether or not I lack a belief in gods.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax