RE: A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
November 11, 2023 at 11:48 am
(November 11, 2023 at 11:25 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I don't know that I'd use artificial that way, or draw that inference based on that use. I don't want to argue too many things at once. Everything that occurs "occurs in nature". If there were a free will it would be a free will occurring in nature. Artificial things do occur in nature. Artificial selection - breeding, is real. It exists. So some thing x being artificial or "non naturally occurring" in whatever novel sense is in no way any indication that it cannot exist. That it cannot possibly be real.
Free will and fate. Free will and fate. The fundamental drama of experiential content. We feel like we choose, and we know how often we're pushed. I think it's somewhere in the middle. Our choices are also pushes and vv. I don't think that place has free wills...but I don't think that place is predeterministic either. Yes, things that happen effect what happens. The decisions that I make, free or otherwise, can be consequential. Adding me to a situation adds something, multiplies the possible consequences and outcomes of whatever it was. Fields don't just grow the way I use them. None of this needs me to be any more to what I do than an ant is to collecting aphids, though.
For some people, this is an apocalyptic suggestion. Hallowing out the very foundations of law and society. For me, it's an observation of connectedness. Of common origin. Of common purpose. Of common interest. Religious ideas, to make that explicit.
Sorry on the "artificial" part. I guess I could have used it better.
I do understand what you mean, though, as I would not say predetermination, or fate, is something that exists. Just causality.
In regards to the consequential thing, I do think not many people realize that actions have consequences, and I do think that in regards to some people who believe in free will; their thinking free will exists may cause them to not think about consequences, even though they do and will happen.
As I said before, free will; if it did exist; would not be that simple. I do think this about people believing in free will and thinking they are so free, even from consequences, all because of it; how can people even use free will if they do not understand it in its entirety?
In fact, can humans even exist with free will; or true free will for that matter? I ask because I think humanity would destroy itself by now if they did with each person having so much freedom if it did exist.
