(December 4, 2023 at 12:17 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: In the end, it doesn't really matter where gods come from, or even whether they exist. Jesus and god can be givens in a discussion about subjectivism. If the moral or meaning making property is whatever is natural to a moral or meaning agent - that's one way to view morality and meaning...but it clearly doesn't need gods to proceed even if they did exist to have opinions and even one of us knew what those opinions were. We already have a moral or meaning making system exactly like that just within ourselves, or between each other.
Who knows. Maybe that's all it is. Maybe when gods or people say that there's something about x that's good or bad that's not what they mean. They're really not saying anything about x - just themselves. On the plus side, no subjectivist statement of meaning or morality that accurately reflects the nature of a given subject can be incorrect, or untrue, and even if we can't know anything else we seem awfully good at knowing what our preferences are. Gods included.
So, you know, god might say "killing the enemy for land and loot and taking their young daughters into sexual slavery is right and just!"...and I might say "Yuck, fucking creeper" - and we're both right! There can't be anything incorrect about that scenario, in a subjectivist understanding of meaning or moral content. We're both living our best lives, apparently.
Unless you study Ethics and have ethical standards.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell 
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist