Human Nature

[The Grand Nudger]

@Alan V

I think saying that we prefer the tradeoffs that hurt the environment (or others) rather than ourselves greatly oversells both our alleged shittiness and our general competence. You don't "prefer not starving"...for example. You are physically and psychologically compelled to resolve your starvation issue by any possible means until you do resolve that issue, or die.

If it's a question of competitiveness, we will never be competitive telling the underdeveloped world they have to starve and be poor and stop having kids to save the planet, for example. That's not just false, it's cruel. There is no excess humanity. That's not a thing. Poor agricultural environments can be changed with the application of two things. Petrochemical products and/or livestock.

I think that any strongly dichotomous religious view of human nature or morality is degenerate, yes. One of the beliefs that degenerate religions stuck us with was the notion that we are somehow distinct from nature. That a "natural environment" excludes humanity and human behavior. It's usually a setup for some transactional desire. So that we know the details of the purchase well in advance and can plan accordingly, lol. I get your urge to avoid propaganda and exploitation, and that doesn't sound...to me..like a misanthrope speaking. You want to win the game the right way more than you want to win the game, doing those things to people would be undemocratic and wrong. There's a preference, in the way that our existential needs ( or the planets, if we believe in such a thing, and it excludes us somehow) aren't.