Human Nature

[The Grand Nudger]

If my metrics for good aren't representative then such metrics are irrelevant. It's like this crap about best possible world invented to make god blame free for all shit in the world he supposedly created. No matter how hard I look I can't see smidgen of evidence for this supposed goodness of human nature. Humans certainly can be good but as far as I am concerned aren't inherently so.

Really?  I get things wrong all the time.  I often underestimate difficulty, overestimate results.  When things go sideways...just as often.... I don't think it's because..failing my metrics or my expectations, that any other set of metrics or expectations are then demonstrated to be irrelevant.  

So people are so ineffective at doing good that few bad actors are enough to fuck up all their effort? Seems like excuse to me, just like when theists starts trumpeting about free will when some ask why their almighty god does not stop rapists.

Here I think we simply don't agree.  I've watched shitty people try to do their worst, fail at that, and accidentally help someone in the process.  I don't know if our wills are meaningfully free...but that happens whether they are or aren't.  Whenever someone opines on human nature or it's balance we're already talking about things we aren't truly free with respect to anyway.  I want to point out again that we don't have to be particularly good at good to be the best at good in an amoral universe full of things which are not moral agents.

Obviously they're voting against their own interests (as long as we're talking about working and middle class). But why voting so would be difficult to explain if human would be bad by nature? If anything it makes things far simpler - humans are bad so they chose (yes I know it sounds dramatic) evil. Interests of working and middle class people are largely different from interests of millionaires and billionaires and that won't change no matter how despicable people in question will be. Class supersedes morality in this.

If humans are bad by nature bad outcomes don't even need explanation.  It's just another way of saying the same thing.  If humans are bad by nature, but good things happen...then we need to explain why we are so consistently stymied in our efforts to do our worst.  When was the last time someone barged into your house at O-dark thirty and shoved your granny's face into your bare earth floor with their well oiled boot over a bundle of contraband sticks?

Has it been more than 15 minutes?  Why?  Are we slacking?  Is there no one around with boots and oil..do you not have a granny...do you possess a floor made out of something other than dirt..is contraband hard to come by?

I have no idea what you're trying to say but people willingly supporting cruelty and inhumanity certainly aren't evidence of this supposed goodness of human nature. If anything their support for cruelty shows that human nature is anything but good.

You say anything but, I say good and other things too.