RE: Hell is theologically impossible if God is omnipotent.
January 10, 2012 at 10:17 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2012 at 10:31 pm by Aegrus.)
(January 10, 2012 at 3:18 am)Godschild Wrote:(January 9, 2012 at 8:26 pm)Aegrus Wrote:(January 9, 2012 at 3:14 pm)Godschild Wrote: Freewill
I have no idea why I'm bothering to respond to this. . .
I'll say it slow, so you can understand it.
If. . .god. . . is. . . infinitely. . . persuasive. . . or. . . omniscient. . . there. . . is. . . no. . . free. . . will.
You missed the entire point of the original post. Good job.
Let's say you're right, and god exists and is omnipotent and omniscient. (You know what those words mean, right?) It's not your choice to believe in him or not, because he made you the way you are, he made all of your life experiences, and he already knows what you will end up believing. If you don't see the logic here you're an idiot.
You call me an idiot and you wrote this, "It's not your choice to believe in him or not ... he already knows what you will end up believing." Now the last part of your statement shows I have a choice, so who is it that is an ...
(January 9, 2012 at 8:45 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: How can someone say "My god gives us all freewill" on one hand, then on the other hand say "This is a book describing how my God wishes you to live your life. If you dont do it, then you will be tortured in fire for all eternity"
That alone is NOT freewill....
The deeper you probe into this "god" fellow, the more obvious he is a tyrant, the more obvious this "freewill" is a lie.
Shows how little you know of freewill and God for that matter, God does not torture and you can not show me that through the scriptures, you determine your destiny.
(January 9, 2012 at 11:35 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:(January 9, 2012 at 8:45 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: How can someone say "My god gives us all freewill" on one hand, then on the other hand say "This is a book describing how my God wishes you to live your life. If you dont do it, then you will be tortured in fire for all eternity"
That alone is NOT freewill....
The deeper you probe into this "god" fellow, the more obvious he is a tyrant, the more obvious this "freewill" is a lie.
In my view, there are two reasonable definitions for "freewill": freedom from coercion, and freedom to act. In my view, the threat of hell negates the former, and foreknowledge negates the latter - though theists often claim that their deity's perfect foreknowledge does not interfere with the free exercise of choice. I find that argument unconvincing.
How do you see foreknowledge to be control over another.
I feel I have to ask. Have you actually read the bible? If so, old testament or new?
Godschild-
If there is free will, how does god have a plan for anyone or anything? (To the best of my knowledge, you have not claimed that god has a plan. However, many theists do, and I would like to know your views on that point.)
If free will actually exists, it would be impossible for a god to interfere with the world at all, lest he hamper the natural course of actions resulting from free will.
Also, to respond to your original rebuttal, no. You having a belief does not mean that you have a choice in a world where a god controls everything. God could force you to believe something, if he actually existed. Also, you cut out the middle chunk of what I said, which is really the much stronger argument.
(January 10, 2012 at 9:39 pm)Godschild Wrote:(January 10, 2012 at 8:58 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote:Quote:Shows how little you know of freewill and God for that matter, God does not torture and you can not show me that through the scriptures, you determine your destiny.rev.j Wrote:Liar. You havent read your bible. Jesus said there would "be wailing and gnashing of teeth". After all, it was Jesus who said that a place of "everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" would also be the place of the "everlasting punishment" of multitudes of people (Matthew 25:41,46) in an age to come.
So yeah GC, God doesnt torture people, he "utilizes alternative punishment techniques". Because weeping and gnashing of teeth of everlasting fiery punishment for those who God hates. And who are these? "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).
So yeah, an eternal "punishment" in a lake of fire and brimstone where we weep and gnash our teeth is not anywhere near TORTURE...oh no. Calling it torture would make Jesus look bad.
You make the decision about your eternity, God gives you what you choose. Can't get much more fair than that. The weeping and gnashing of teeth is for the wrong decision one makes, weeping and gnashing of teeth is about sorrow not pain.
Quote:How do you see foreknowledge to be control over another.
rev.j Wrote:We have all explained it to you in detail through several pages of posts, yet you are still incapable of understanding.
No you have not, the only thing I've heard out of you is this, "just because," an answer that would come from a two year old.
(January 10, 2012 at 1:00 pm)Greatest I am Wrote:(January 9, 2012 at 3:14 pm)Godschild Wrote: Freewill
Could you remind us as to what hapened to A & E the first time they used their free will?
As I recall, God threw a fit all over them and us with original sin and all those other woes that he surprised A & E with.
Am I wrong?
Regards
DL
Adam and Eve disobeyed God it is as simple as that, God never through a fit. If you had the ability to understand a story of love and caring you would be able to understand the story of Adam and Eve. Since you do not understand the story that says what about you.
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Hmm. . I'm not sure we're reading the same bible here. Let me guess: your pastor and/or mother read the story of Adam and Eve to you and glossed over the negative bits?
What falls away is always, and is near.
Also, I am not pretending to be female, this profile picture is my wonderful girlfriend. XD
