People Behave Socially and 'Well' Even Without Rules

[reverendjeremiah]

Ah, the much vaunted majority consensus. As I recall, prior to 1865, majorities in quite a few areas held that the color of your skin means you can be owned...

Because all societies were anarchy back in the slave days. No, wait, they were all republics or kingships of some sort.
My argument: If it can happen with or without a government, then the government is useless in this situation...in fact it becomes a burdon
Atheism, to put it very simple, is anti-authoritarianism. It isnt one sided. It isnt like the plutocratic bastards saying "I tell you what to do, but dont you dare tell me what to do". Anarchy is "You dont tell me what to do, I dont tell you what to do, and I really dispise the idea of you telling that other guy what he can do as well."

So, you tell me, will an anarchist own a slave, or allow a slave to be owned?



Not even the anarcho capitalists will allow slavery. How can you be anarchy in the midst of slavery? How can you be anarchy owning a slave?

Maybe, maybe not. Primitive societies can keep remarkably stable while practicing cultural practices and laws of dubious intent. It only follows that any society can maintain itself as long as the growth rate is greater than or equal to death rate.

Primitive huh? You forgot stupid... you could have fit stupid in there somewhere.

Besides, i am not an anarcho-primitive. I am a syndicalist. I WANT modern factories and organization. Syndicalism is specifically geared towards a technologically advanced society with no heirarchal structure. Thats why it is sometimes called "Techno anarchy".

And what if your group has many members of one family where they can use intimidation to prevent you from successfully protecting your property.

You mean like the Bush family in America? Yup, without a government huge groups or large families will take advantage of you. That could never ever happen in a non-primitive democracy.

My argument: If it can happen with or without a government, then the government is useless in this situation...in fact it becomes a burdon

But hey, you're not going to leave, right? It's been your home since forever, you have friends, etc, etc,.

I didnt leave when the Bush family helped rob everything that wasnt welded to the floor in America over the last 20 some odd years.

Did you?

Jesus, the double think you've got here is astounding -- what makes you think you can solve problems that have plagued every societal implementation from day one? Anarchism, syndicalism, etc,. They're just as fanciful as Ron Paul's ideal world.

Dont forget primitive and stupid.

Please show me where I said that anarchism will "solve problems that have plagued every societal implementation from day one? ". In fact i will quote some stuff from our discussion:

I argue that if people are treated as individuals, instead of a means to make profit, then theivery and violence would be lessened considerably. - Please keep in mind that in no way have I ever said it was a perfect system.

If you got that impression from me, then I apologize...but if these problems you speak of have existed, and still exist, then what does that say of the government system as well? Last I checked government has been OVERWHELMINGLY more dominant than non-gevernment, yet you point at ME and say "what makes you think you can solve problems that have plagued every societal implementation". Think about it.

In the end run, as with any group of primates, you'll get clan/family-based loyalties, and thus a concentration of power. With the power and ability to form alliances comes ruling over others, in some sense. And then we're right back in a form of archy, a rule.

Doesn't matter if it's kings, the family matriarch or some mythical dude named Jesus, you're not going to find anarchy anywhere because inevitably, someone successfully reasserts control and begins to exercise their strength.

hmmm...good point. I have always considered politics to be a revolving door. One type of politics may be popular for one generation, the next may change it. Sort of like how left wing politics was all the rage in the 60's where right wing politics are all the rage for the hippy children.

so basically you are saying there is no such thing as a perfect or permanent government model.... I agree....so lets have as much freedom as possible.

As far as "you are not going to find anarchy anywhere" is a pretty big step from "Somalia could be considered in anarchy".
allow me...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Anarchist+Communities

People who believe in violence and rule of the strong?

Please, tell me with a straight face those societies/groups never form...

Hitler, Mussolini, and here lately America. Exactly, and who the fuck enjoys living around them assholes? Do some people even have a choice living around them? Because you are basically describing fascism, which is the polar OPPOSITE of a syndicate.

So in other words, there is no standard for justice but the fickle beliefs of your community-mates?

What if they community decides it's a good time to lynch some negros?

There is a standard of justice in this universe? What did the American republic do to stop communities from lynching negroes? Oh yeah, it legislated it and gave it a stamp of approval. When has morality NOT been decided by the fickle beliefs of the individual and the community? A syndicate is an egalitarian society. In fact it is egalitarianism in practice in its fullest form: Equal reward, equal rights, equal freedom, equality across the board. If an anarcho-syndicate decides to lynch people based on the color of their skin, then they are NOT Anarchist or a Syndicate.

That makes no sense -- everyone has work? What if no further work can be done due to material limitations (until a totally unrelated discipline figures a way out)? Then no one, or much fewer, has work.

What if 'work' is defined by mining coal? What if all the coal is mined? What then? No more work.

Then people take time off from work and enjoy life. or they travel to another coal mine if that is what they enjoy. Why is this so hard for you to understand? So the huge apartment complex is finished, and no plans floating around for any new house work, kick your heels up. Go out in the feilds and help grow some food. Feilds are fine? Go to the kitchen and try inventing a new recipe. Write a new song on your guitar. the local car plant sends someone out asking for 3 able bodies to to move a welding robot so the electricians can replace it with a new one. Are you interested? If not then John around the corner has a sign asking for help in his music shop for the summer. An electrician just got done wiring up a bakery and decides hes bored with electrical work for now, plans on taking a few days off and then sign up to help run the crop machines in the field just to do something different for a while. there is always something people can be doing, and since every one is chipping in here and there, you can take some time off here and there as well. Some industrial workers may have to stick to a constant shift, like those in charge of an electrical power plant. not just anyone can walk in and do that job. It requires education and skill.

So instead you defer either to the masses to decide what is valuable (really? Really?) or a select group of individuals, of where tyranny can reign.

That's what capitalism got right -- it reduces down opinion to a common denominator -- demand/supply.

Show me something that sidesteps the "tyranny (or ignorance) of the masses" problem?

People...not profits. Remove the money, the oppression, the rich, the poor, the enforced racism..in other words all the crap the government enforces, and suddenly its about people, and not greedy profit. Its about shared survival, not lording over another.

two words: Equal education. Not this rich school poor school crap. Damnit man, cant you see how this current system is set up to keep most families in their current economic state indefinitely? How can I have an equal chance to help my son become a doctor when it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and I only make pocket change? That isnt equality man. That isnt a fair chance. Equal education is free education for all. I am stuck being an electrician, most especially now in this current government controlled economic mess. I would love to go to college to become an electrical engineer. I should be able to just walk in and start my education. But no. I have to have lots of cash that i dont have. In a syndicate there will be plenty of teachers, and they will be doing it because they WANT to do it, not because they have to. Everyone shares in the rewards. Everyone has food and shelter. people do things because they WANT to and because they can, or for whatever reason they choose.

So it is not equal work for equal pay?

It depends on the syndicate that is set up. Vast majority of syndicates I have read about, and syndicalists I have spoken to, reject money and capitalism. Everyone makes the same. It also depends on if it is an anarcho-capitalist society. In that case you have the rich and the poor and some form of money deffinitely is used.

BECAUSE YOU ONLY LIVE IN YOUR HEAD AND WANT TO SURVIVE, you thick headed dunce!

Wow...careful man. Dont let your anger get your warning level rated up.

Famines are the biggest time for robbery, because the stakes are "live" or "die"!

Wow!

So anarcho-syndicalists should never be put into practice because famines can produce robberies and murder?
Am I allowed to use your same argument for every other form of government?

And what if the community simply does not have enough food, spread out, to support everyone? It might even be that combining yours+someone else's food keeps you alive for another day.

Then the community sure didnt plan well enough did it? If the community does not have enough food, then trade with other communities for food. Another community may be aggriculture heavy and in need for more framing machines. Lets rally the hungry community and get some tractors made. Lets help the other community with some of our tractors and people. they may need a few extra cars, or their power plant may be on the fritz and our community has well trained electricians and elctrical engineers. Does our community need shoes and another community need sugar? How about a trade? Barter is always available to the free market of a syndicate at its labor exchange.

But hey, it can't happen, right? It won't happen, right?

And people will use critical thinking and not their emotions during a time of incredible stress, right?

I dont know, and neither do you. Since we are making up scenereos, what happens when Americas republic gets hit with a single atomic bomb? Will the government be able to stop the mass killings, theft and rape? If you cant answer it, does that mean the government is useless? Stupid? Primitive?

Nope, haven't found anything.

Still, those anarchists really got the right idea? So we should see more of this in Spain, right?

"right idea" is nothing more than an opinion. I have ever only pointed out that this is merely my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeLak3_Fv...lf=mh_lolz
Start the video at 0:42 to understand the peoples kitchens that i was talking about.
As far as Spain goes, it took the combined forces of Franco and the Nazi's, along with embagros from the French to shut it down. Franco came back in and suppressed the people. The Anarchists are still there in Spain today, but do not have near enough numbers to start another revolution. then again, Spain isnt anywhere NEAR as bad now as it was back then.

Damn this is hard!

Its not THAT hard. You just arent doing your homework.

You're a fucking idiot if you think the Code of Hammarubi and modern day English Law/Napoleonic Law are comparable. For one thing, the Code was simply an assignment of act to punishment-style text.

Easy there buddy. Last time I made a post so full of insults such as this one you posted they rated my warning level up to 25%.

And that is the most generalist, brain dead approximation I can think of!

But, hurr-durr, we might as well call a bird a gecko for all I care.

LOL, you're funny when you are mad.

Permit me to illustrate the depth of my regard.

Sure..where is the illustration?