People Behave Socially and 'Well' Even Without Rules

[reverendjeremiah]

I don't have a citation for the U.S. handy, though if memory serves, I recall a figure quoted that 88% of violent crimes in the U.S. do not result in a conviction. In some ways the U.S. is an example of bad things happening, as our jails are filled with people convicted of so-called "victimless crimes" and less violent offenses; the minor evils are viciously punished while the vicious evils are not. It's well considered that the U.S. sends far too many people to prison. (See also the India article which discusses Japan and Russia, where conviction rates are very high, but likely due to injustice instead of efficiency, the effect of convicting innocent people in large numbers.)

And what does this tell you? It tells me that we have, in america, used up all of our money on "easy busts". Why should a cop go out and risk his life busting a gang of highly armed crack dealers when he can make a high profile pot bust? Pot dealer probably doesnt own a gun, crack dealer probably has a collection of auto-weapons. Pot dealer probably deals so he can smoke for free and supplement his income. Crack dealer rakes in cash hand over fist, doesnt partake of his product, and generally doesnt give a fuck about anything but profit. What is the one thing in common between the crack dealer, pot dealer, and the DEA officers?

Profit

Pot isnt a violent drug. In fact it makes its users non-violent for the most part. So, if I were the head of the DEA, I would focus my dept on easy profit and easy busts. the easy money is in busting pot heads, not crack dealers. I want to make mad easy money and go home to my wife and kid. Busting pot dealers is usually a final act. Busting crack dealers put me in danger of being murdered by hit men, because they have WAY more money, and more than likely have bribed officers with their profits.

Profit

It keeps coming up again and again. PROFIT is the big problem. Profit can take a small, insignificant problem, and multiply it into an out of control situation.

If the ability of the massive police states and legalistic machinery in large, modern governments does so poorly at protecting its people, delivering justice and stopping evil-doers, what makes you think an anarchist state will even do as well? Yes, the community might ride you out of town on a rail if they catch you, but that's only a 1 in 10 chance of happening. Maybe crime really does pay. And the mob, in it's wisdom can only redress the inherit injustice occurring when its members are victimized by lashing out, stripping people of civil liberties, and then lynchings and vigilante justice take the place of law, and 9 in 10 people punished are as likely innocent as guilty. (There's a reason it's called "the tyranny of the majority", with the emphasis on tyranny.)

Then what good is a police state? Well, profits for the few. And the masses accept it. No, they dont just accept it, they glorify the police state. but here is the kicker...

...even though you pointed out how twisted, corrupt and failed the police state is, you still supported it by claiming that an anarchy could do no better.

First you make the incorrect assumption that anarchy is a state. Anarchists oppose the concept of a state.

So, If crime really does pay, like you say, then how do we fix the problem? Simple. We make the concept of "pay" fade away. If the concept of profit is removed from the equation, then NOTHING pays. By creating a truly egalitarian (social and economic) civilization, many of these problem will be lessened. Sure, people will still make meth, but with no profit motive what would they make it for? Extra food? In a system where everyone is well fed? Why? Would they make it for sex? That is a possability. But in a truly egalitarian society education is free and superior. Women and men have equal opportunities for possibilities. Education is lies or lessened. Drugs would be legal and a "matter of fact" approach to education about them would be obvious. Would they make meth for money? In a civilization without money that will not happen. Will he make meth for gold and jewelry? Sure, thats a possibility, but the dealer is already guarenteed a home and food and water and health and a job and free education for life. Jewelry is a status symbol. Would good is a status symbol in an egalitarian ("classless") society? Sure, the problem will still exist, but it will be lessened. Of course meth would still be made, but how far would it go without the profit model and good education? There is going to be addiction and addictive personalities anyways. In the system we have now, meth addicts hide it and do not seek out help out of fear of losing their job, their family, their property, their money, their freedom. In a society where home and livelyhood are guarenteed why would he fear seeking help? In a society where money doesnt exist and jobs are available always why would he not seek help? In a society where health care is free and people approach drugs and addiction with a REALITY based view (as opposed to the propaganda machine we have now) why would he hide it and HOWwould he hide it from others for long?

THAT is why I say my system would lessen the problem.

I don't need any study to prove that people are generally good... because people are generally good. Hell, just today at a gas station a hispanic man returned us a quarter when we only needed 23 cents, smiling and joking about it as he did so. Just yesterday some guy who recognized me from a trans group cut (politely) through a crowd just to tell me that I passed... a week ago.- What kind of social dynamics? Do I need laws to go out and make friends, to find a lover, to raise children, to help someone in need out? No, I do not... so what is it that you think social dynamics has to do with laws... or are we using this differently as well? Yes, there's life in the real world, death too, there are resources to be managed, and there may even be 'bad apples'... but so fucking what? I do not see how anything is remotely different in people just because it's all too 'real'. I find that a sense of urgency, or prevalence, or actually needing to do something... is more of a motivator for doing 'good' than anything except appreciation for work already done.

Great point Lilly. When i go out and mingle with society, i dont think of laws or regulations to keep me in line. I dont think to myself "I have to not punch this dude in the face" because it is illegal. I think that way because I would not want people punching me in the face. Why do i drive safe? Not because of the fucking cops. Because I know there are other people on the road. I dont stand on my front door and shoot my gun wildly into the neighborhood because I dont want to hurt pepole, and I dont want them to do the same to me. People will come together and make a community happen because we have evolved to do such a thing. We are a social animal. We arent like praying mantis' who eat the heads of their mate during intercourse. We have evolved to come together for the sake of survival WITHOUT a president, king, congress, etc...etc... and we did it for MILLIONS of years just fine.

There are assholes, it's true. But unless they occupy a position of power it doesn't matter much. A couple bad apples spoil the bunch? I don't think so.

BINGO! a government makes it easy for a small group to enslave the masses. Nothing more, nothing less.

I could crow about the nice stuff, but why should I when revvie's probably responded 16 times already?

I have...I get tired of typing what I feel is they same old shit in every post...although I admit i am not the best debater for anarchy... I am getting better.