(February 3, 2012 at 12:50 am)Godschild Wrote:
Abra Wrote:There is nothing perfect about the God that is described in the Bible.
The first thing the God does is confess to being a jealous God. He's already imperfect right there. Then he's also a vengeful God. Far from perfect.
Why does on lose perfection by being jealous as God describes it, He says He is jealous because He loves everyone, yet so many turn their love to other gods (statues, money,self and ect.), God is the one who gave all life yet is rejected for selfish reasons.
Abra Wrote:Moreover, there would be absolutely nothing "perfect" about a God who can't forgive people unless they are willing to nail his son to a pole.
In fact, do you realize that by accepting Jesus as your "savior" you are indeed condoning having Jesus nailed to a pole to pay for your sins.
In fact, accepting that Jesus was crucified to pay for your sins would be no different from God handing you a hammer and spikes and pointing to Jesus and the Cross and saying, "Unless you are willing to nail my son to a pole to pay for your sins I won't grant you admission into my perfect heaven."
That's basically what these fables require of you.
Your understanding of the sacrifice of Christ is not correct, man did not sacrifice Christ, God the Father did, man murdered Christ, man had no intention of sacrificing Him all they wanted was to shut Him up, He was ruining the cozy life of the priest. Only the Father could have sacrificed Christ His Son, the Father was the one who was suffering because of Christ's sacrifice, man became the beneficiary of the sacrifice God made.
You are correct in one thing, not just me and all Christians are guilty of the crucifixion of Christ, you and the rest of the nonbelievers are equally guilty. The difference here is that those who admit to that guilt and ask Christ into their lives are forgiven, those who do not are not forgiven, it's true all of mankind is guilty of the murder of Christ. It's one thing that deeply hurts me knowing I'm responsible for the death Christ had to suffer. Yes, my name was on one of those nails, just as all Christian names were there, they however were washed away as the blood poured over them, the names that remain are the nonbelievers, who have not nor ever will accept His sacrifice and redemption.
Abra Wrote:Besides, what would be the point in an eternal hell of suffering that no one could ever escape from or be pardoned from?
Clearly it's not going to do any good for the people who are suffering. They most certainly aren't being taught a "lesson" because its eternal. What's the point in an eternal lesson that never ends? It would be utterly pointless.
The point is punishment for those who will never accept Christ, even after they are in hell they will continue to reject Christ and blame Him for their eternal situation.
Your analogy is wrong even from a human stand point, we incarcerate those who commit crimes and are not redeemable ie. unfit for society, and they remain there till they die. Just as we are not trying to teach a lesson to these, God is not trying to teach a lesson to those who choose hell. Remember you choose hell, hell is not given to you for any other reason than you choose that eternal fate over Christ and the heaven that He promises.
Abra Wrote:Therefore the only other possible reason that this God could have devised such a wicked scheme is because he actually enjoys knowing that people are suffering eternally. Otherwise why bother doing it at all?
If it doesn't do the people who are suffering any good, and it serves God no useful purpose then what would be the point to it?
It's clearly a man-made fable intended to scare people into obeying a religious scam.
There simply can be no other explanation. No genuinely all-wise (supposedly benevolent) being could possibly have set up such an asinine and utterly useless situation.
There would certainly be nothing "perfect" about such a demonic God.
The scriptures which are of God says this, "God's will is that no man suffer hell," He knows how bad it will be for those who choose not to accept the sacrifice He made for man, man through God's love has an escape, if he will only accept it. Look at it like this, if one were to fall into a deep pit, and the only possible escape would be for someone to throw down a rope, life line, and all one needs to do is trust the person on the other end will pull them out, if the one trapped holds on all the way out of the pit. Would you refuse the rope.
I know you will probably will not try to understand this, hell does serve a (actually many) purpose, this one in particular is called justice for all.
Abra Wrote:The very fact that any human being falls for this absurd religious scam is beyond me. We've dismissed the Greek Gods as being nothing more than pure mythology for far lesser reasons.
It's really quite simple. No supposedly "perfect" God could be as screwed up as these religious myths demand.
I don't know about you, but such a God would be far beneath me in terms of compassion and love.
Even if I were to sentence some to eternal punishment and suffering whilst I was in an emotional fit of rage, it wouldn't be very long before I regained my composure and forgave them and withdrew the sentence.
You're right the Greek, Roman, and ect. gods have been dismissed because there were reasons to, we could see them, they were made of stone, wood or what ever and did nothing, absolutely nothing. On the other hand the God of creation is unseen and in the hearts of those who believe has done many great things. The nonbeliever can not see the works of an unseen God unless they were to open their hearts. This is just one reason God can not be dismissed, being unseen, for this reason and others He remains unseen until one comes to belief in Him.
God does not have fits of emotional rage when one goes to hell, and you can not prove your statement He does. On the other hand I can refer to scriptures and they show He takes no delight in any who enter hell.
Abra Wrote:To think that a supposedly "perfect and benevolent" God could sentence people to eternal suffering and punishment (and in some cases for having done nothing more than merely not believing in him) is simply ludicrous.
With all due respect it would be utterly stupid beyond any rationale.
Moreover, think about this,...
The GOOD NEWS that Jesus supposedly brought is that MOST PEOPLE are going to hell!
That's right.
Jesus is said to have taught:
Matt.7
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
There is one reason people will be in hell, unforgiven sin, every person has the choice to receive forgiveness, if they do not take on the choice then they will spend eternity in hell as promised. God does not necessarily send you to hell, He does of necessity give you your choice of hell. Again you will probably refuse to try and understand that God's justice is for all and this is why hell is necessary.
As for the verses you've given, Christ is telling the future, He wants people to understand that to choose Him means a life that is not going to be easy. So my friend the message Christ brought is this, you do not have to choose hell, choose the sacrifice I made for you, and receive forgiveness and enter my kingdom. A hope and promise of wonderful love.
Abra Wrote:Well if only few make it into the Kingdom of God, then clearly the vast majority of souls that this God creates are sent to this eternal hell.
This would be a loser God. A God who loses the vast majority of souls that he creates.
In other words he would be an extremely inefficient creator of souls.
That my friend would be far from being "perfect".
Face it. The religion is nothing more than an outrageous scare-tactic scam created and maintained by mortal men.
There's no way it could be about any genuine divine being. It's simply far too ignorant.
If only a few choose the Kingdom of God and the rest choose an eternal hell that is not God's fault. God sacrificed His son so that everyone who chooses so can have eternal life in His heaven.
God gives you the right to think this way, He is allowing you to choose your own path, now if it leads to eternal hell or eternal life, well that choice remains in your hands, He will never force you to choose. God is perfect, his justice is perfect and He is perfectly willing to accept you and anyone else into His kingdom as long as you believe in the sacrifice Christ made for us all, those who choose will have their names washed from those nails that held Christ to the cross.
I face the realization of the perfect God who has given us the perfect escape from an eternal hell, Jesus Christ.
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God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
