Custody Battle Update Thingy

[kılıç_mehmet]

My last reply to the topic, I've said about everything that I wanted to say.

One thing in one country does not mean the same thing in another.

Only social conservatives are opposed to women "selling their bodies." As George Carlin observed, selling is legal, fucking is legal - so why isn't selling fucking legal?

I am opposed to a PIMP selling a woman's body. If she sells it, it's hers. If you think there's something wrong with it, we'll discuss it in another thread. The fact is that men are willing to buy it. What now?

Well, leftists are leftists everywhere.
Even Karl Marx has pointed out that women who engaged in various acts like prostitution, and other means of bodily exchanges for money are outside of the people who he regarded as the core of the worker's revolution, classified them as "Lumpenproletariat".
Surely, if you claim to be a leftist, you should also take into consideration the circumstances which force women to take the path of prostituting their bodies to other men. Not actually whitewash it, and claim that it's their own choice whatsoever.
Prostitutes with pimps, yes, they too have made a choice. There are cases in which women are lured into prostitution, but there are cases where prostitutes just work with a pimp for protection, as there is always the case of your client not paying you, and you can't go and tell the police that the man you slept with didn't pay you(unless you asked for it in advance).

Men are willing to buy it? Yes of course! Not all men are handsome and charming as Aleia's ex boyfriend, yes? But as you said, we'll discuss it in another thread.

People who dispense medical marijuana are classed as drug dealers, and they are selling relief to young, old, families, children, and they DO care. What about that alcohol you consume? It's a drug.

You know exactly who I mean, and who I speak of. I speak of those who take marijuana for recreational purposes, and the dealers who sell them for it.
As for the alcohol I consume, I could tell you about a story I went through, and why I think that alcohol is nothing alike any of the illegal drugs in the world. But that's for some other time.

Not all drug dealers fit your stereotype - I know, because I've known some.

So did I. And I can tell you here and now, that I'd not allow any of them to enter my house. Because the one time I did, a friend of mine got his nose busted just because his father was a policeman, and that he was too ignorant of their nature to point it out in a discussion.

Yes you could - by asking more questions than immediately judging. This whole thread is a prime example.

Well, I'm only asking questions in regards to things I haven't made up my mind yet. On certain things, my opinion is already fixed.

Some people leave because they want to get out on their own regardless. I know people like that. We still haven't established that there is inherent shame in stripping for money. It earns good money, keeps her healthy and fed. In fact, as long as they're not doing drugs (which anyone, stripper or not, could do) strippers are also in pretty damn good shape from what I've seen. At least, the talented ones.

And I wonder how you're going to make it on the outside by 16, and well, how well you're going to get through life, and what kind of a position you're going to archive besides working as a stripper.
It earns good money, sure, but at the cost of your dignity.

You never asked. She's highly intelligent. You judged before you got to know her.

Intelligence and the way she was raised are different things.
She might be intelligent. Or might not be. I don't know that. But I can tell you here that according to my standards, her parents did not raise her according to the minimalno that I think is necessary.

Lots of people do lots of shit to earn money the easy way.

However, here comes into play the honesty of the trade. Even if their business were legal, it'd still be dishonest.

So...it would have been better if her daughter hadn't been born? Is that what you're implying?

Well, that's up to her, like with your *pro-choice* arguments, she could have gotten pregnant in an artificial way from a sperm bank, and I still wouldn't care if she chose to give birth to it, or not. In truth, I do not know her personally, I'm not related to her, and I am miles away from her, but it's not her, or her baby I'm concerned with here. It's her actions.
Her deeds, not *herself*. So it does not really matter if she gave birth to her, or chose to abort her.

Not a good one.

Well, the guy himself is not a source of anything that is good, so his facebook won't do any more good either.

Then be aware that's not how we operate here.

Well, it should be.

I highly doubt that, but go ahead, surprise me.

Well, your doubts have proven to be correct. Not much has really changed, to be honest.

Because he had anger issues and self-esteem issues and felt like taking them out on us? Why does another human abuse a fellow human being? What does it have to do with the point?

Well, some people are just like that. They can bring themselves over the fact that they are hitting a woman and a child. I do not harm any being that is weaker than me.

Language barrier. I meant that Alei doesn't have a broken home. She might have come from one, but her kids are in a fine place, and her daughter will be too when she's back home with momma. She doesn't need a traditional "normal" family to create a good, loving home with strong intelligent children. Only people who think a family has to be a certain way say there is anything wrong with a non-traditional family.

I think that the benefits of a traditional family with strong bonds amongst relatives cannot be denied. I myself am reaping the benefits of it, and so do most of my friends. Indeed, you do not even need parents to create a "loving home" with strong, intelligent children.
But they do not have the benefits of a family that I and my peers enjoy here, in Turkey. We're even in touch with relatives from our original homes, like Romania and Crimea, and plan to visit those places in the future, where we have a home we can always stay in.

What I think is wrong with the non-traditional family is, that it's being shown as an alternative to the traditional familial values, whereas it's nothing more than a deviation from what it was meant to be.
That comes into play with illegitimacy, unnecessary friction amongst relatives, and the pursuit of selfish needs.
Once again, I'm not saying that it would have been better if her child was not born, but if I remember correctly, she has other children besides this one.
Well, the least she can do is to find something resembling a father figure for them, or someone who can at least provide the family with an extra income. She however, finds comfort in non-serious relationships, which have provided her with an extra head to feed and raise. And she had that child from some married drug dealer whom she barely knows, probably.
If you think that this is how a family person should act, I think that there is something seriously wrong with any of you.
Family life is meant to be peaceful. If there is turbulence, it means that something is going wrong. Aleia's life, to me, sounds very turbulent.

Now to you, Aleia.

My praise is in the bank, so I don't need your praise, nor care if you think I deserve it.

I know you don't. And I do not care if you care.

Because she has just turned 18 and has 13 and 14 years old sisters to support, and needs something to make up for the $5.50 an hour she's making at KFC? I don't find anything shameful about stripping, or prostitution. Some women like doing it, and you should always do what you like. Who does it hurt? As long as a woman is doing those things willingly, I don't see a problem with it.

Well, where are your relatives? Where is your mother and father?
Now, my Queen, tell me that I'm wrong when I say that traditional familial values are required for a society to work? This woman here did not have anyone to take care of her, or her sisters. The money she was making working in an honest trade did not allow for her to take care of her sisters. Circumstances forced her to work in this line of work, but I see that she tries to fool herself by saying that there is nothing shameful about doing stripping or prostitution. Well, there is nothing shameful if you do it out of your need, but why would anyone do it without a need?
Why would a woman who has studied arts, and has a respectable job as a judge, leave her job, and work as a prostitute or stripper?
Let's say she earns the same wage in both lines of work.
If prostituting your body to other people you do not know, is no shameful thing, then I think that you could tell me that you wouldn't object to any of your daughters doing it *willingly*.
It's not only shameful, but indignifying for a woman.

That's because you don't think very well.

Unlike you, I guess.

I don't have any issues with nudity. I don't see it as taboo. Were you not born naked? Fucking A!

It's not about nudity, but you don't seem to understand it.
If you were required to do some other nasty shit for some guy that payed you huge amounts of money, but were required to keep your clothes, that'd still count the same in my eyes, aleia.

If it's something she wants to do, and it makes her happy, I'm fine with it. Why shouldn't I be? I love her and I'll support her no matter what. I'll always be proud of my girls.

Well, you'd be proud of her for sure, as you can't really scorn her for doing it, but would you really like the fact that your daughter has to bear the sweat and taunts of other men who drool over her each night?
I know, this sounds quite bestial and grotesque, but I'm certain that you think that she deserves better than being just a piece of show.
Forgive my honesty, but I don't think I'll ever understand this depraved state of mind that you possess. Maybe the circumstances made you this way, but I still don't want to believe that you'd honestly be okay with your children working in such places.

I've never had sex for money, but I wouldn't be ashamed of myself if I had. I only glorify earning my own money, and not letting limits hold you back from your dreams. If it takes a little nude ass shaking to get it done, then by all means.

Well, your cold pragmatism is astounding, however I suppose that you don't mention this before the court either, should they ask you.

You sound like you're mindset is stuck in the 16th century. That's bizarre, considering this is the 21st century. I'm certain that a Puritan from the 16th century would find my reality to be bizarre and disturbing, but I don't give a fuck because they're dead, and I'm not, and this is the only life I am certain I am going to get. So fuck your limits. Get busy living.

Well, that's the problem with you, aleia. You certainly have no limits with how you want to live your depraved life, but the limits that you do not have power over force you to this depraved way of life.
With this being the only life you're going to get, I wonder how your grandchildren will remember your name, if at all.

It's good to know you understand that your problems with me aren't about me.

Well, I don't have to have problems with you, or about you, but you do have problems with you, or things about you. Problems that cause more problems as you go along, I see.
The ones about you being that you had to face life at such a young age.

Correction! I don't have to take care of her alone, I want to take care of her alone. It's my privilege to take care of her alone, and don't you ever forget it.

Privilege my ass. Really, you think that you're proving something to the world by trying to take care of your children+1 alone?
Privilege. Yeah, go an live out your so called privilege, aleia, but I still hope that things go well for you.

Learning the hard way builds character. We're both contrasting examples of that, I think.

I think that this way of thinking is faulty. One needs to learn things the hard way sometimes, but the things you were forced to learn are not the things that I'd be proud to have learned the hard way.
In fact, I'd be ashamed, as not to speak them out anywhere, but here we are, amongst people who will never see eachother. And as you said, you're a private person in real life.

K. Weed isn't poison of any sort. Ignorance just shining through like a beacon in the night. Wow, it's so bright!

It is a poison of the mind. In fact, it is something that numbs the mind.
IT only is the comfort of the people that have nothing else in their lives to hold on to.

It sure as fuck isn't Turkey.

Glad to hear that.

Gotta love that 5th amendment!

I don't think that the 5th amendment is going to protect you there, aleia.
If the court would hear of you being a stripper(once, I don't know with what you busy yourself these days to earn money), using drugs, and having children with people who sell drugs, they'll most likely think that not him, nor you are eligible to raise this child in a proper way.

Exactly why drugs should be legal and regulated.

And who is going to regulate it? You?
Didn't you blather stuff about personal choice, individualism, and limitlessness? Besides, even with regulation, these drugs are going to be as common and widespread as alcohol and tobacco, and with time, will certainly have a greater impact on society than they already have..
But hell, it's your country, not mine, which is going to go down the drain.
Maybe we'll discuss this some other time.

Marijuana has never harmed anyone. Who are you to determine a man's worth. Nobody. That's who.

Oh, sure, it has never harmed anyone, keep telling yourself these lies, aleia.
Besides, I can very well weigh a person's worth in my eyes, and tell this to anyone I speak to. Either they heed my words, or they do not. It's up to them, if they choose to deal with that person.

No. I'm a better, stronger person because of every mistake I've made. You think you have it all figured out, but the truth is, you're completely jaded. You don't make mistakes? Good for you, but the entire world as we know it, on almost every level is here because of accidents, mistakes and imperfections.

I think that you think that you had me figured out, thinking that I'm thinking that I've figured it all out.
I've restated things here. Just followed your own words, answering you with your own pragmatist worldview.
I do make mistakes, but thankfully, I've made none that has left me with an illegitimate child and a very angry woman on my back!

Back to the Queen:

By whose measuring stick?

By the set of values and morals I've learned from my family, and society.
These set of values and morals are not there to cause me harm, but to protect me from harm. I say that aleia's actions are not worthy of praise, as they are not worthy of such.
Some, however, are. Like taking care of her sisters, still taking care of her children, going through amounts of trouble to save her daughter from some drug-dealer scumbag...
These are all things I do praise. However, let it be known that I generally tend to see the faults of a person and speak of them, although I wonder what kind of a jacket she wears.

"There are never so many rich men as pretty girls who deserve them." Jane Austen wrote that somewhere over 250 years ago I think. Regardless, you want a woman to marry you solely for your money? In exchange for what? That's respectable? Respectable is him knowing what he's paying for and the transaction ending there. Prettying it up with marriage is fucking bullshit.

Well, it's not about me, it's about her. And being the pragmatist she is, that being said, she'd do anything for money, she could have gotten married. She wouldn't have to do anything else, and could get half of the stuff upon a divorce. Really, marriage seems to be the most logical option for *earning* some money, if you are only bent on monetary things in this short life.
But that sounds too off, too grotesque to your ears than having to work as a prostitute on the streets?
And yes, it's more respectable due to the respectable name of marriage that you people have no respect for either.

The limits are the ones the religious right have put on society. They don't speak for everyone.

Oh sure, now we come back to religion. I don't think that any of the limits I possess are based on a religious book. My limits are fully integrated into my logic. Like, do you need a religious limit to tell you that many things in today's society are wrong?
I certainly don't.

I think you're missing the entire fucking point: all she wanted was sex. That was all she got. Until she realized she was pregnant. Then all she wanted was for him to act like any other responsible adult on this planet and have a little care for the being he brought into this world. He was the one who turned it into a mess. Not her.

I'm not saying that she did turn it into a mess. I'm saying that the mess would not have happened if she would adhere to some moral standpoint when it comes to sleeping with people.
Like, forming a relationship first...That's what people do around here, and there too, I guess.
Maybe after that, it would have gone a bit smoother.

And I'm sure you inspect every condom you use thoroughly, or watch a woman take every one of her contraceptives for a month before having sex with her? Alei thinks before she acts too. Shit happens.

Well, I do not inspect things much, as I have mostly a short time as one hour, but I think that until so far, no prostitute has come up to me saying that she was pregnant from me.

Fucking hell I hope you don't become a father. Ever.

If aleia can become anything near called a mother, I sure as hell can become a father.

Make sure you say that to the next bartender who sells you booze.

Even the bartender tells you to go home after a limit.
Besides, all bartenders I know are great people.